Screwed Ordering Dry Suit
- Thread starter taat2d
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ScoobieDooo
Guest
Well, I duuno about you guys but I'll stick with Northern Tech Divers myself, as MY BARE ATR order get filled, and made PERFECTLY to my satisfaction. Wish that Taat2d went with Northern Tech as well...live and learn!
trymixdiver
Guest
After hearing both sides i can see there are two different sides to the story. As none of us other than Dan and Joey were there who the hell knows what to think.
This all boils down to miscomunication.
I dont work in the SCUBA industry, but i am the Customer Service Rep for the company i work for. I deal with these situations all the time. Every week i end up having to deduct moneys from a final bill just make the customer happy. Even in cases where i know for a fact ( because i saw the damage prior to our starting the project) we didnt damage the item in question. There is no arguing with someone who sees the situation another way. I am not picking sides here at all. I do however feel that Dans should have offered to split the cost of the suit modifications Joey is having to get done.
again it has nothing to do with who is right and who is wrong, its about resolving the issue fairly. Joey gets his suit but does need to pay half of the modification costs. Dans Pays half of the Modification cost and hopefully Joey recognizes Dans efforts. Joey in turn gives them a thumbs up and the referal process is rolling. Joey post in the SB how great the CS at Dans is, versus the negative thread we have here.
this could have been handled better on both sides.
Andy
I posted about DUI's CS here and on there web page. I felt i needed to let people knowwhat they did for me, fixing my suit free of charge.
Also, Dan nice professional response, Joey on the other hand has let his emotions take over.
This all boils down to miscomunication.
I dont work in the SCUBA industry, but i am the Customer Service Rep for the company i work for. I deal with these situations all the time. Every week i end up having to deduct moneys from a final bill just make the customer happy. Even in cases where i know for a fact ( because i saw the damage prior to our starting the project) we didnt damage the item in question. There is no arguing with someone who sees the situation another way. I am not picking sides here at all. I do however feel that Dans should have offered to split the cost of the suit modifications Joey is having to get done.
again it has nothing to do with who is right and who is wrong, its about resolving the issue fairly. Joey gets his suit but does need to pay half of the modification costs. Dans Pays half of the Modification cost and hopefully Joey recognizes Dans efforts. Joey in turn gives them a thumbs up and the referal process is rolling. Joey post in the SB how great the CS at Dans is, versus the negative thread we have here.
this could have been handled better on both sides.
Andy
I posted about DUI's CS here and on there web page. I felt i needed to let people knowwhat they did for me, fixing my suit free of charge.
Also, Dan nice professional response, Joey on the other hand has let his emotions take over.
ScoobieDooo
Guest
Well - I was 'biting my tongue for awhile here but I have to put my $.02 in now...
I feel that the old "Customer is always right" motto applies here. Now what you have is an unhappy customer who has brought bad press for Bare AND Dan's at this point. Not desirable.
IMO, since Bare COULD NOT fix Taat2d's suit and keep his ORIGINAL stock vulcanized boots intact (funny this private drysuit repair outfit can though, eh?) what Dan's SHOULD have done was say "OK Joey, since we can't fix the suit the way you'd like to have it we'll issue your credit card the credit to have this done." Period. Effective, solid customer service skills. Everyone is happy. Chalk the loss up to experience. Dan, I'd venture to guess this isn't the FIRST time you have gotten burned on a drysuit order, right?
IMO, you don't tell a guy who JUST dropped $1k on a suit that you "CAN fix the suit for and additional $160 AND, now he has to live with soft socks and buy Trek boots." I mean, who wants Trek (rock) boots when your suit ORIGINALLY sports VULCANZIED boots? I think that's a half-@ss fix, don't you? Its like ordering Faber tanks and getting aluminum, don't ya think? Apples and orange's here guys...I'm just curious WHY www.drysuitrepair.com CAN do this alteration guys and Bare said THEY can't?
Remember, the customer is always right...
When I was in sales, we ATE customer errors all the time rather get in peeing contests with a customer and damaging fragile customer relations AND, losing a customer permanently in the end.
Dan - I just wonder, was the $100 or so Joey JUST spend with www.drysuitrepair.com worth:
A) The loss of Joey's future business?
B) Joey's poor recommendation of Dan's and Bare?
C) The loss of business from guys like ME who were about to purchase Poseidon regs, additional Bare accessories, etc?
That $150 US dollars (less than that Canadian) to 'make it right' is ending up costing you guys a hell of a lot more than $150 US in the long run, plus - a good dose of bad press here...
PS Also, having studied law some time ago - this isn't grounds for 'slander' as you have suggested to Joey - Joey has simply stated HIS side of the story, such as yourself - and thats NOT slander as long as the statement is true - and the fact that Joey HAS a suit with legs 6" too long is proof enough that someone messed up. When a guy gives YOU his dimensions, it had to be either you or Bare that messed up. But aside from all that is the FACT that we have here a customer who has a drysuit now that CAN be seriously DANGEROUS to dive with, perhaps DEADLY, in the fact that God-forbid he ever got on a 150 ft deep dive, got inverted, had his feet pop out of the boots and lose his fins here. No one thought about the consequences of this problem? Could have wound up costing you guys a heck of a lot more than $150 in fixing this problem than if Joey happened to die as a direct result from a mishap such as this. Anyone ever think about THAT?
I think you guys could have handled this in a much better professional manner. I had had MANY customers screaming and yelling at me on the phone over receiving the wrong parts, not getting their parts when they were supposed to, etc. - but the last thing that the distributor wants to do is resort to irritating that customer ANY more IS arguing or hollering back. That doesn't do anyone any good....
So Dan's - as a jury member, MY vote would have to have gone to Joey - NOT that he couldn't have messed up - but because YOU and Bare were NOT willing to 'make things right' and help this poor schmuck out AFTER dropping a grand with you.
I purchased MY BARE ATR Light from Northern Tech Divers, and I probably called them 40x checking on MY drysuit over the 7 wks it was on order asking questions, etc. and you can't blame a guy who is dropping 1/2 of months salary on a considerable investment that he is if he is excited or has questions. Buying your first drysuit is a serious statement in diving, and a considerable investment to boot.
PS MY suit came to me in exactly the correct size that:
A) Northern Tech SAID I'd get...
B) To the dimensions I gave to Northern Tech Divers
I think much can be learned here fro this mishap. Perhaps you guys need to put a online drysuit order form that shows a diagram and directions on HOW TO CORRECTLY MEASURE for a suit AND, require that the perspective customer FILL THIS OUT and refax or e-mail back as an attachment. THEN, you are 'protected' and, so is he.
Sorry guys, I'm with Taat2d on this one and I wouldn't purchase from your firm after seeing the way this was handled.
PS I spoke to Taat2d last night via PM - he doesn't have any drysuit hood yet and Diving Concepts has asked him to send copies of his dry glove paperwork, directions, etc. so they can see what he HAS there on that note. That issue is just a continuance of the dilemma he has faced. Too bad HE can't sue for damages experience by trauma, aggravation and financial loss HE has experienced now.
I feel that the old "Customer is always right" motto applies here. Now what you have is an unhappy customer who has brought bad press for Bare AND Dan's at this point. Not desirable.
IMO, since Bare COULD NOT fix Taat2d's suit and keep his ORIGINAL stock vulcanized boots intact (funny this private drysuit repair outfit can though, eh?) what Dan's SHOULD have done was say "OK Joey, since we can't fix the suit the way you'd like to have it we'll issue your credit card the credit to have this done." Period. Effective, solid customer service skills. Everyone is happy. Chalk the loss up to experience. Dan, I'd venture to guess this isn't the FIRST time you have gotten burned on a drysuit order, right?
IMO, you don't tell a guy who JUST dropped $1k on a suit that you "CAN fix the suit for and additional $160 AND, now he has to live with soft socks and buy Trek boots." I mean, who wants Trek (rock) boots when your suit ORIGINALLY sports VULCANZIED boots? I think that's a half-@ss fix, don't you? Its like ordering Faber tanks and getting aluminum, don't ya think? Apples and orange's here guys...I'm just curious WHY www.drysuitrepair.com CAN do this alteration guys and Bare said THEY can't?
Remember, the customer is always right...
When I was in sales, we ATE customer errors all the time rather get in peeing contests with a customer and damaging fragile customer relations AND, losing a customer permanently in the end.
Dan - I just wonder, was the $100 or so Joey JUST spend with www.drysuitrepair.com worth:
A) The loss of Joey's future business?
B) Joey's poor recommendation of Dan's and Bare?
C) The loss of business from guys like ME who were about to purchase Poseidon regs, additional Bare accessories, etc?
That $150 US dollars (less than that Canadian) to 'make it right' is ending up costing you guys a hell of a lot more than $150 US in the long run, plus - a good dose of bad press here...
PS Also, having studied law some time ago - this isn't grounds for 'slander' as you have suggested to Joey - Joey has simply stated HIS side of the story, such as yourself - and thats NOT slander as long as the statement is true - and the fact that Joey HAS a suit with legs 6" too long is proof enough that someone messed up. When a guy gives YOU his dimensions, it had to be either you or Bare that messed up. But aside from all that is the FACT that we have here a customer who has a drysuit now that CAN be seriously DANGEROUS to dive with, perhaps DEADLY, in the fact that God-forbid he ever got on a 150 ft deep dive, got inverted, had his feet pop out of the boots and lose his fins here. No one thought about the consequences of this problem? Could have wound up costing you guys a heck of a lot more than $150 in fixing this problem than if Joey happened to die as a direct result from a mishap such as this. Anyone ever think about THAT?
I think you guys could have handled this in a much better professional manner. I had had MANY customers screaming and yelling at me on the phone over receiving the wrong parts, not getting their parts when they were supposed to, etc. - but the last thing that the distributor wants to do is resort to irritating that customer ANY more IS arguing or hollering back. That doesn't do anyone any good....
So Dan's - as a jury member, MY vote would have to have gone to Joey - NOT that he couldn't have messed up - but because YOU and Bare were NOT willing to 'make things right' and help this poor schmuck out AFTER dropping a grand with you.
I purchased MY BARE ATR Light from Northern Tech Divers, and I probably called them 40x checking on MY drysuit over the 7 wks it was on order asking questions, etc. and you can't blame a guy who is dropping 1/2 of months salary on a considerable investment that he is if he is excited or has questions. Buying your first drysuit is a serious statement in diving, and a considerable investment to boot.
PS MY suit came to me in exactly the correct size that:
A) Northern Tech SAID I'd get...
B) To the dimensions I gave to Northern Tech Divers
I think much can be learned here fro this mishap. Perhaps you guys need to put a online drysuit order form that shows a diagram and directions on HOW TO CORRECTLY MEASURE for a suit AND, require that the perspective customer FILL THIS OUT and refax or e-mail back as an attachment. THEN, you are 'protected' and, so is he.
Sorry guys, I'm with Taat2d on this one and I wouldn't purchase from your firm after seeing the way this was handled.
PS I spoke to Taat2d last night via PM - he doesn't have any drysuit hood yet and Diving Concepts has asked him to send copies of his dry glove paperwork, directions, etc. so they can see what he HAS there on that note. That issue is just a continuance of the dilemma he has faced. Too bad HE can't sue for damages experience by trauma, aggravation and financial loss HE has experienced now.
dvleemin
Contributor
Well,
I'm on Dans side with this one, for a number of reasons.
First, the customer is not always right IMO as Scoobie said. If a customer screws up obviously, the store should not have to eat the cost. Remember, Dans is not a huge Walmart or Home Depot, and even though they may be considered large by LDS standards, they still can't afford to eat thousands of dollars on customers mistakes (and neither should they have to).
Taat2d's intention was to save money on ordering his drysuit, and thats why he ordered it from out of town, instead of going to an LDS. As with all things ordering over the phone, or net, you've made the concious decision to try and saving money while increasing your risk. This includes the risk of being defrauded (ie the suit never arrives), or something not fitting as well as you hoped. After reading all of Taatds responses, Dan's description of the situation seems very realistic. Taatds insults and childish replies ("Maybe you should look into retiring", "That is the biggest joke of your sorry excuse") make it difficult to believe him.
If I were Dan, and the other drysuit manufacturs, I would have th customer fax a signed copy of their measurements before taking the order. No more ordering over the phone, as there then is no proof about who said what.
FWIW, I've never dealt with Dan before, but would not have a problem dealing with them. In fact, when I do get my ATR HD, I will definately be talking to them. I think you could find an awful lot of people (and quite a few on this board) that have had postive experiences with them, and this situation is certainly in the minority.
Darryl
I'm on Dans side with this one, for a number of reasons.
First, the customer is not always right IMO as Scoobie said. If a customer screws up obviously, the store should not have to eat the cost. Remember, Dans is not a huge Walmart or Home Depot, and even though they may be considered large by LDS standards, they still can't afford to eat thousands of dollars on customers mistakes (and neither should they have to).
Taat2d's intention was to save money on ordering his drysuit, and thats why he ordered it from out of town, instead of going to an LDS. As with all things ordering over the phone, or net, you've made the concious decision to try and saving money while increasing your risk. This includes the risk of being defrauded (ie the suit never arrives), or something not fitting as well as you hoped. After reading all of Taatds responses, Dan's description of the situation seems very realistic. Taatds insults and childish replies ("Maybe you should look into retiring", "That is the biggest joke of your sorry excuse") make it difficult to believe him.
If I were Dan, and the other drysuit manufacturs, I would have th customer fax a signed copy of their measurements before taking the order. No more ordering over the phone, as there then is no proof about who said what.
FWIW, I've never dealt with Dan before, but would not have a problem dealing with them. In fact, when I do get my ATR HD, I will definately be talking to them. I think you could find an awful lot of people (and quite a few on this board) that have had postive experiences with them, and this situation is certainly in the minority.
Darryl
Well unfortunatly I'm not rich. I guess I should know better right? And go to my LDS and pay full retail? Give me a break. So yes I look to save money. Don't we all? I wonder how you would have reacted if it was you that this happened to.
ScoobieDooo
Guest
dvleemin,
IMHO your wrong. Even Wal-Mart's offers a 14 day refund/exchange period for defective or problem items.
I disagree on ordering online, another poster bought their drysuit from Leisure Pro with no problems, and I either from Northern Tech Divers - so I don't always agree with that argument of buy online. If that was the case, NO one would be ordering from mail order giants such as L.L. Bean, Cabela's, Lands End just to name a few.
I'm just curious - even IF it WAS Taat2d's error, mean to tell me that Dan's COULDN'T have gotten BARE to shorthen the legs an put the vulcanized boots back on like www.drysuitrepair.com? Whats that? Who's BS-ing who here? Mean to tell me that a MAJOR drysuit manufacturer CAN'T take off a pair of vulcanized boots (that THEY put on), shorten the legs 4" and re-glue them on? How come two OTHER drysuit repair shops that I have in my Favorites bookmarked CAN do this and BARE can't?
Something smells here...
IMHO your wrong. Even Wal-Mart's offers a 14 day refund/exchange period for defective or problem items.
I disagree on ordering online, another poster bought their drysuit from Leisure Pro with no problems, and I either from Northern Tech Divers - so I don't always agree with that argument of buy online. If that was the case, NO one would be ordering from mail order giants such as L.L. Bean, Cabela's, Lands End just to name a few.
I'm just curious - even IF it WAS Taat2d's error, mean to tell me that Dan's COULDN'T have gotten BARE to shorthen the legs an put the vulcanized boots back on like www.drysuitrepair.com? Whats that? Who's BS-ing who here? Mean to tell me that a MAJOR drysuit manufacturer CAN'T take off a pair of vulcanized boots (that THEY put on), shorten the legs 4" and re-glue them on? How come two OTHER drysuit repair shops that I have in my Favorites bookmarked CAN do this and BARE can't?
Something smells here...
dvleemin
Contributor
I certainly don't think there's anything wrong with saving money; I do it myself. But you have to realize there is some risk as well. Expecially given that your body measurements are definately not the typical sizes stock drysuits are made for. IMO, you are the perfect example of a person who should be ordering from an LDS.
How would I react? Of course thats impossible to say. I would hope that I would take a little bit more responsibility for my own part in this whole thing. I would also hope that I would try and be a bit more mature in my responses.
Darryl
Be a bit more mature about what? I was simply suggesting maybe he should retire maybe his game is starting to slip since's he's been at it for so long.
If I'm a dealer and someone calls me with my measurements, I would tell that person that I can't help them unless I personally SEE them to take actual measurments for them .I WOuld direct them to their closest LDS. unliess of course I was just interested in maiing a quick buck and didn't care about my customer's outcome.
dvleemin
Contributor
Hi,
You missed my point about Walmart and Home depot. What I was trying to say is they are big enough where they can afford to eat customers mistakes, or other things that really aren't their fault. A dive shop doesn't have the luxery of being this big.
I would guess that in the online cases you mentioned the buyer's body differ from a 'stock
' body as Taatds?Yeah, the whole not being able to shorten thing is a bit odd. Didn't Taatd say he talked to Bare, and they said they couldn't do it (I'm too lazy to read through all these posts again
) If thats the case, its certainly nots Dan's fault, although I certainly agree it wouldn't make me too impressed with Bare. That being said I really get the impression from Taatds posts that we're hearing a very one-sided story. I wonder if there's more behind this . . . Darryl
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