Saw this on Another Forum...Deep Deep Diving

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If any of you folks seriously believes we have divers buried in the mud on the ocean floor at 3600fsw breathing a liquid substitute for our normal gaseous medium while "waiting for passing submarines", I have news for you.

When your company tells you to go for your next random drug screen, DON'T GO!! YOU AREN'T GOING TO PASS!! :doctor:
 
PfcAJ:
I just have to question the accuracy of hearsay from a person who can't spell physiology and oxygen.

Maybe he was trying to spell "Fizziology"- the study of gas in liquids and just left out the other "z".
 
Prudent_Rabbit:
interesting thing is that after a while your skin gets so soft that gasses can partialy exchange and you start breathing like some lizzard - through your entire body!!


Something I learned in an industrial fire/ rescue course I took is that your skin (even when dry) absorbs more oxygen & exchanges more gasses than one might guess. We were learnning about confined space rescue (toxic &/ or low oxygen atmosphere). Of course the golden rule is to never go after a victim without proper equipment, training & back- up. Many confined space deaths include the original victim(s) and the would- be rescuer(s) who are not trained or equipped. Most of these would- be rescuers think "It will only take a few seconds to rescue my buddy & I can just hold my breath". The lack of oxygen (usually displaced by the toxins or just low oxygen levels) on the skin + holding the breath causes the blood oxygen levels to drop very quickly in the would- be rescuer causing a natural instict to inhale within 20-30 seconds. The rescuer then, also succumbs to the toxic atmosphere and becomes another victim. Even though most respiration is done by breathing, the skin also does a considerable amount. So it would stand to reason that softened skin could also absorb oxygen through an oxygen rich fluid.
 
Storm:
Yes the rat scene inthe movie was real. The rat in question was one of a group that was used during the animal testing process. This theoretical science is not new. in fact it was proposed and tested on small animal in the sixties. In the first few years of the experiment, every rat died of lung damage shortly after being drainned.

In the last few years (yes they've been experimenting with this stuff for over 40 years), they have managed to keep the rats alive, but human testing (dont know about the military they tend to do t'hings their own way, and in their own time) has not been undertaken as there is permanent damage done to the alvola, and broncheal tubes.

The public word, from the authors of the studies, is that, at this time, liquid breathing technology is potentially viable, but the after effects of prolonged, and repetitive exposre are fatal. (even in the rats....too many time down = death)

There has been some interesting work done using the medical applications of this technology, but it is still considered a risk treatment, and is not commonly used.

By the way for those who bought into the line from the movie (we all breathe liquid for nine months) that's another hollywood fantasy. Unborn children get their air supply from the umbillicp cord. The heart of the unborn cjhild has a valve that allows oxegenated blood to bassically by pass the lungs as they lungs are not functional. Just do a search on PFO and diving and you'll see where the nonclosing of that little valuve has been atributed to some cases of DCI.

All of this can be found with a simple evening surf of the web. It's not new, but it mae fr a good evening's read on a cold winter night a few months ago.


Good post. Neat background. Tell me what you think of this: the Navy-blend (as I heard it referred to), is being used in humans. The divers selected get three. Two in training and one real deal dive: one to determine level of the diver’s adaptability, one to master issues, and one to apply in field. After that they are cut loose from the program. This I read and didn't hear from the SEAL I know.

JB
 
Adobo:
I guess I have my head stuck on the idea that on open circuit scuba, falling asleep is fatal. "

Nope. I have a friend who has napped on the bottom of the lake waiting for others to arrive because it was hot on the surface and cool in the lake...
 
BigJetDriver:
If any of you folks seriously believes we have divers buried in the mud on the ocean floor at 3600fsw breathing a liquid substitute for our normal gaseous medium while "waiting for passing submarines", I have news for you.

When your company tells you to go for your next random drug screen, DON'T GO!! YOU AREN'T GOING TO PASS!! :doctor:

That's it. No argument. Just, you're on drugs. Fair enough, I guess this is a wild topic.

As for the drug test, I'd be held anyway. I pee liquid O2. :)
 
RockPile:
Good post. Neat background. Tell me what you think of this: the Navy-blend (as I heard it referred to), is being used in humans. The divers selected get three. Two in training and one real deal dive: one to determine level of the diver’s adaptability, one to master issues, and one to apply in field. After that they are cut loose from the program. This I read and didn't hear from the SEAL I know.

JB

It would seem to agree with the primary study group results. They found that the lung amage was cumulative in nature. Hence the more dives, the more damage. In the first successful repetetive exposures the rats survived between three and five (if I rememeber right) dives before the lung damage became fatal.

I had not heard of army sustanied human trials (other than the juvenile medical appplicaiton) though. Mind you I'm limited as everyne else is as far as what info I can get my hands on, though I've been following this one one, on and off, for a few years now.

The theoretical technology is cool. Kind of like cyogenics, and suspend animation. Cool in theory, but I'm not glong to hold my breath waiting for it to become fact.


Serously folks of you d a search on liquid breathing. You'll find the usual flake sites. but you'll also find links to the study groups in the US, Russai, Germany, Italy. Not tomention the medial applicaitons that ARE being tested and used.

About the initial study
http://classes.kumc.edu/cahe/respcared/liquidventilation/wikeper.html

About the medical studies being conducted now.
http://www.ahsc.arizona.edu/opa/horizons/2000/fall/pg10.htm
http://www.scienceblog.com/community/older/1996/A/199600440.html
http://www.allp.com/LiquiVent/LV_SUMM.HTM


Again its not there yet but it's interesting.
 
RockPile:
Without betraying my thoughts on Wiki-anyone-submit-anything-they-conjure-up, I'll just say that if I can't convince you, I'll live. Mainly because I know it's very hard to believe. I actually don't blame you a bit.
d
JB

Hey, I'm pretty open minded. If you could clue me in on some links that discuss some liquid being used in diving outside of anything experimental. Heck, I'd even settle for any experiments that showed actual promise.

All we have in this thread so far:
- somebody who was on a seminar with a "PhD, prof. dr. and all that of hyperbaric fiziology".
- SEALs digging holes, covering themselves up to their necks with mud and waiting for submarines for a number of days then when it goes by....military secrets... Must either be great viz to discern all those top secrets on those passing subs or subs almost scraping the bottom of their hulls on the sea floor. Of course, all the cool technology and secrets are actually inside the sub so maybe the SEALs have X-ray goggles too.
- liquids that contain "food" and "antiseptics (for neutralising urin etc.)"
- colonoscopies
- "I met one of those divers too..."
- Not one link yet posted containing anything resembling science on anyone using liquivent or some other type of liquid for use in diving

So please forgive my cynicism. Particularly so close to April 1st. I think this discussion is interesting but probably more appropriate for a science fiction forum.
 
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