Ronda Cross Tank CO Test cause of Death

[theduckguru]

Bauer has a good concept to make sure filters are being changed, but the system appears to lack a CO detector w/auto shut off. BAUER COMPRESSORS - Compressors - Breathing Air - Accessories - SECURUS

http://www.bauer-kompressoren.de/en/produkte/atemluft/optionen/b_control/index.php

They claim that a diver is assured good air from sources on this program.

I emailed them encouraging the program.

 

[swamp diver]

From this link it appears the dive shop in question has been removed as a PADI affiliate.

http://www.padi.com/scuba/about-pad...onsumer-alerts/special-advisories/Dive-Shops/

 

[vincent54]

I read through the Bauer link, and it appears to be a problem that has a solution. Good, well maintained and monitored equipment. They have installation, maintenance and technical support. It would be criminal if a dive shop knowingly doesn't maintain and monitor it's air that it supplies consumers. Thanks for the info. I'll still get my own tester.

It was interesting to also find out from the link to the CO monitor that DAN donated a few CO monitors to Conzumel dive shops. Hate to think DAN will have to use it's resources to supply the world's dive shops that are too cheap to get their own. The most expensive units are in the 25-30k region, but I am sure there are less expensive, fully functional units that will work fine.

There was even mention of the case in the Maldives, in the Bauer link, from a couple years ago. The explanation given for that accident , pointed towards negligent maintenance. Albeit with a better outcome, and with much lower levels of CO in the tanks.

The facts of this case will come forth, but it appears to be a preventable death. Well wishes to the family.

---------- Post added March 10th, 2013 at 09:13 AM ----------

Correction to above, the DM died in 08 accident, so it didn't end any better. Sorry

 

[DandyDon]

If it's the Maldives case infamous on SB, they were using a cheaper filter as I recall, an electric filter on a gas or diesel power compressor that allowed too much CO in, and it was a Russian tourist who died. We heard a lot about that one from one of the survivors and discussed it extensively. The owner sued SB & everyone who posted to that thread. It was thrown out of court but still cost SB a lot of money. Members voluntarily donated to the defense fund and you will still see some wearing the Defender badge on their posts.

Just a guess: DivingZorro might have made libelous comments about an Op in this thread leading to a post to be removed, but I don't know. He was informed in PM, as I had suspected.

 

[vincent54]

Thanks for the info. It was written up in the 01 08 2008 Bauer news letter, with a highlighted picture of a taped up duct hose. I was unaware of the previous accident, so maybe the dive shop in question was also unaware?? I guess any negative statement can be construed as libelous.


Bauer looks like they are addressing safety issues with the pure air program, but will only be effective if properly administered by the owners of their compressors. It is not too much to ask the dive business owners to monitor their gas they are supplying too their clients. Cheers

 

[DandyDon]

An Analox inline Clear CO monitor can be installed on a compressor for not much more than $1,000, so costs the operator pennies/tank in time. Bigger compressors can cost more to outfit, but still - pennies/tank. There are other brands & units that can be used as well. The old school thinking from before the technology became available was focused solely on prevention, but without full understanding. Today, we have more info on prevention in part because we also have the technology to test & monitor. As more divers test, discover problems, complain, and expose on the net, Ops are slowly getting the message to clean up their act.

Even the installation of a Clear unit is not guarantee tho, as they have to be installed correctly, maintained well, and used correctly - not ignored if the alarm goes off, better if set up to auto shut-off. Failures still happen in spite of units, as exposed by testing divers, and we hear about a few of those.

 

[Scared Silly]

As said, trust no one. However, I prefer to be a bit more positive - trust but verify. I say that because while there have been accidents the vast majority of cylinders filled have been done safely. It only when there are cases such Ms. Cross's unfortunate accident that we are reminded.

As what we can do as divers I think it is simple - ask questions and vote with our money. Before booking your next trip ask about the air facilities. While I am slowly learning what questions to ask thanks to folks like Pete (aka SwampDiver) it would be really nice to have a compressor check list for divers. However, the check list not only needs to have questions but also explanations of possible answers and how best to interpret them.

For instance, let take the quarterly testing (with a bit of a divergence). A good idea in concept but difficult in practice as it is a snap shot at that time but says nothing about the current conditions (just a cylinder VIP). BITD that was really about the only mechanisms most facilities had. And if in easily accessible area having samples tested is simpler than in a remote area which is often the case with the best diving. So if it takes weeks to send off and get the test results does that really help? Now this does not even take into account when the samples are taken, before, after, or between scheduled maintenance. As such, I can see why PADI dropped it as programmatically there are some issues.

So lets start with something simple. Ask for the dive OP to send you pictures of their filling station. Does it look clean and well maintained? Where is the inlet? Normally, there are maintenance records. Ask for them to be sent to you. If you get an answer like we do not have a photocopier - baloney I bet they have access to a digital camera.

Ask about whether they have an inline CO monitor. While there is the Analox Clear in the past Lawrence Factor made a chip one that turned color.

As mentioned alarms for hot air and low oil. There are more but I do not have the knowledge. But the bottom line is that if you do not get answers or answers you like vote with your money and go somewhere else. But let the dive op know why so perhaps they might change their practices because if we as divers do not demand it - it will not happen.

In the mean time trust but verify. Finally, Mr. Cross thank you for the courage to join the discussion and my condolences on losing your wife.

 

[Ayisha]

Thanks for the info. It was written up in the 01 08 2008 Bauer news letter, with a highlighted picture of a taped up duct hose. I was unaware of the previous accident, so maybe the dive shop in question was also unaware??...

Anyone who was reading the Accidents and Incidents on SB at the time and the the Scuba Related Court Cases forum shortly after should have been aware of the Maldives accident. Anyone reading the Accidents and Incidents on SB in 2005 and a little after should also have been acutely aware of the Roatan CO deaths. From 2005 on, some suspected but unverified CO poisonings posted to SB. The Kukulcan Mexico CO deaths and then 6 divers becoming ill/unconscious due to suspected CO poisoning leading to the well publicized teaming up of DAN and Analox to provide 10 COClear inline CO monitors.

All of those preceded Ronda Cross' death and the illnesses of 2 others with her, and should have been pretty known industry wide.

Bauer looks like they are addressing safety issues with the pure air program, but will only be effective if properly administered by the owners of their compressors. It is not too much to ask the dive business owners to monitor their gas they are supplying too their clients. Cheers

It wasn't Bauer's safety issues that caused a compressor to produce CO - there were flagrant violations of standard care and maintenance practices and the use of incompatible products. Bauer seems to be trying to work more with their clients so they understand how important it is to use the correct materials and follow protocols to preserve life.

 

[MMM]

---

---

A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Battles between dive shop operators (even if being fought publicly by only one party) will not be tolerated in the A&I forum. Any and all further such posts will be deleted, as was the last one. This has become completely out of hand and this forum's moderation will be strictly enforced. It is shameful that dive shop operators are trying to slag one another over this tragedy. Marg, ScubaBoard Moderator

---

 

[peterbj7]

It would be criminal if a dive shop knowingly doesn't maintain and monitor its air that it supplies consumers.

Sadly that's not the case. Please do not assume that American/European laws and customs apply everywhere - they don't. After a death here occasioned by gross negligence some time ago I waited for action to be taken, but nothing happened. The case was never even properly reported. Many people believe it was an unforeseeable accident, and that is the position that has been promulgated. A lot cheaper for the operator that way.