Rodale's pushing deep air.

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rjchandler:
Well, no it wasn't.

You could continue to discuss deep air here if i promised to cover my eyes and not look. And I promise not to wander over to any "tech" board and sully my "basic" scuba diver eyes. Guess I'll have to rely on Rodales if no one wants to discuss the subject elsewhere in front of me :crafty:

This board exists to discuss things doesn't it??

As I noted in my original post, I put this thread here specifically to try to put it in front of an audience similar to that which would be most likely to be reading Rodale's. Just trying to provide the other side of the coin so to speak.
 
Great thread.
Anything with Rodales in the subject always interests me. As a cyclist (as someone else has pointed out), Rodales is looked on as a "beginner" publication, and always causes heated discussions. (although I still subscribe to bicycling).

This thread has caused me to want to get solo certified, not that I want to dive solo, ever, just to become a better diver. I wrote my OW exam last night, one question went something like, what is the best rescue. The answer is, a rescue that was prevented from happening. I believe solo certification could help in this area. NOT THAT I EVER WANT TO DIVE SOLO.

This thread has also given me a great faith in the Scubaboard members. They don't accept what is written at face value, and I can learn a lot from this board, and use it when I consider anything dive related.

Thank you for the great discussion, and I can't wait to hear from the author of the article.
 
DA Aquamaster:
Personally I read the Rodales article as well and I did not feel it was not "pushing" deep air but rather just addressing the question of whether it could be done safely.

Frankly I found the article to be a refreshing change of pace from the anti everything that ain't politically correct trend that seems so popular lately.

The article pointed out that people have and continue to make deep air dives safely and that it does offer the advantage of simplicity. It also makes the point that saftey is a relative thing. To be honest if we were all obsessed with saftey, none of us would ever go in the water. Diving is an adjustable risk sport and what is risky to one diver may not be regarded as risky to another.

The article did mention the elimination of the risk of switching to the wrong gas at depth, but I do have an issue with that. If you are doing deep anything without an accellerated deco gas, you will be doing a lot of deco, so I don't think deep air would totally eliminate the risk in the real world as most divers would take a deco gas along anyway.

You do need to be fair and state that the article does point out the limitations of deep air and suggests deep air in cold dark conditions or where a long swim along the bottom is required may not be a great idea. They also point out that results will vary from diver to diver and day to day.

The article essentially concludes that deep air is safe under the right conditions and I think that is a reasonable conclusion.

A larger issue of contention I suspect is the underlying assumption of the philopsophy of leaving the esponsibility for deciding what is safe and whether the conditions are right with the individual diver. I have always been a big proponent of individual responsibility. I much prefer it to the dogma of some of the current tech training agencies that promote doing things in the one true approved fashion and consequently eliminating freewill, at least if you want to be a member of the "club".

There are some people who like this sense of belonging, who like the idea of having a creed to follow and who view dving as the ultimate team sport. But the there are others who view diving as an expression of individuality and view diving as the ultimate in individual sports and as an opportunity to express their individualism and self reliance and to put it into practice.

It's a big ocean and I think there is more than enough room for both points of view. In my opinion a little maturity and a little tolerance would be a welcome addition to this thread.



This is a pretty predictable thread and it was inevitable that some one would make a statement like this. I guess I would have been surprised and maybe even dissapiointed if someone did not. Your statement sums up the anti whatever argument nicely but also serves as a good example of where a little tolerance for other points of views would be appreciated.

Personally I do both deep air and solo diving and have done so for almost 20 years so naturally I disagree with you that either is "bad" or "stupid" and resent the implication you make about divers who engage in either.

What maybe bothers me the most about your post is the idea that if you feel something is "bad" it should not be discussed. I assume the idea is that if we talk about something that is "bad", people will run out and try it in a teeming mass.

I prefer to think that if we openly discuss anything enough, people will be able to make their own decision based on informed consent and will pursue those things that makes sense to them and avoid those things they don't. It's an idea that is closely related to that thing that lots of people talk about but that very few seem to really understand lately called "freedom".

Great summary of all the issues. And a much better, more balanced account of the original article as well. Thanks, D/A.
 
MikeFerrara:
As I noted in my original post, I put this thread here specifically to try to put it in front of an audience similar to that which would be most likely to be reading Rodale's. Just trying to provide the other side of the coin so to speak.

While I agree with you Mike, that there are better gas mixes than air for any diving deeper than 100 ft, it is still true that the PO2 limit of 1.4 with air is not reached until about 185 ft. Where agencies and divers choose to set their own limit is not universal. NOAA sets their own limit at 170 ft.

Getting hold of better gas mixes is a fuction of location and resort development. Although I virtually never dive deeper than 100 ft with air, and it bothers me whenever anyone else does, I just bite my lip, rather than criticize, when they do.

Nice job, Mike, of generating discussion! Very nice job.
 
But..... I do like some of the pictures! :(

Seriously, we get Rodales (as newbies... first one we could find) and although we are natural sceptics it's good to hear educated discussion on the other side! :) Thanks
 
How many of you read Dive Training magazine. It is a great magazine that has everything from light fun reading to technically challenging material. Not to mention, they give any newly certified diver a six month subscription for free. Best of all, you don't feel like you are reading an advertisement. I also have never heard any legitimate complaints about the content of their publication. (they go out of their way to make sure their claims, observations, and calculations are correct). I believe Rodale's is awful but I will still pick it up and browse through when I see one. Dive Training magazine is worth its weight in cash.
 
I do think people need to realize the market Rodales is aimed at. Their business is a commercial one, so they will try and promote the sport with a bias towards their advertisers, and so it is targetted at newbie resort and O/W divers.

I think it is a good light reading with pretty pictures, just don't take anything in it too seriously. My biggest issue with it is that some readers will take this information as the gospel truth, and that may get them in to trouble.

Unfortunately they are no real magazines out there that I know of.
 
Can anyone show me a magazine that doesn't have many, many pages of advertising? Is it that a "Newbie Mag" should not be available? The rookies should go right to Immersed or some other "professional magazine". I personally don't mind getting whatever, just to have some bathroom material to hold me over - I get the despised Rodale's, I get the garabge agency magazine of Sport DIver, I get Immersed, I get the UnderCurrent, I get DIVERS ALERT, - point is that there is something for everyone. I am not saying that this magazine is great and for everyone, but not everything that they print is BS and they do have some cool stuff to offer. Hey if people would print their stuff for free I am sure they wouldn't have as much advertising. I can tell you this - I print a swim-suit calendar out every year for my business and if you see my first issue there was not one ad - this year I have roughly 6 pages of advertising. It helps to offset layout, content, and priniting costs. I just think people force way too much opinion on certain subjects and blow things WAY out of porportion.


But that's just my opinion........what the hell do I know....I'm still a novice.....maybe I'm just rambling.....
 
cyklon_300:
was a nice companion piece to the comprehensive spare air review last month...

CLASSIC cyklon, CLASSIC!

Also second Mike's choices of books. Burgess' book, Cave Divers offers many unique stories of history of cave diving and the cast of characters moving the sport in the right direction. Aqua Quest is publisher and can be found quite easily.

Regarding Bernies pub....are they still around? Have not rec'd my latest issue. Last I hear he was going to have a "Spring" issue. Sure glad I sent him some spending money last Dec!!

ADM is also a decent rag as is IANTD's Nitrox Diver. It's just not big enough.

Again, nice report/post Mike. I read that article and did not feel it was a well prepared piece. Obviously there is no one really minding the editorial "store" at Rodales so they must just have free rain to print what ever comes to mind.

Someone in an earlier post, maybe Rick......send it to Scuba Diver......Also a good idea.
 
I have mixed feelings about the deep air article, now that I have finally found a copy of it and have read it myself. This article is probably over the heads of most of the RSD readership. The article’s author tries to make the point that there are benefits to air diving compared with EANx or helium-mixed-gas diving. The author presents a one-sided argument in favor of diving air. It would have been a better article if he had presented both sides of the issue, with the introduction of the “best mix” concept from technical diving.

I therefore agree with MikeF's notions about the article, although not with his own unbalanced, strictly anti-air reply to it.

Writing to RSD with your own view of the topic would accomplish more than anything else.

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