Robbery

[DandyDon]

After reading this thread, I do believe some of you could use a good stiff drink. Between crime, robbery, burglary, correct grammar ..egads!

If Bonaire were really so terrible, why do so many folks visit her year after year after year?
Why do so many folks endure harsh and expensive airline flights to get to her?
Why does Bonaire have so many repeat visitors?
Why is Bonaire consistently rated as one of the top dive destinations?
Why are the Bonaireans considered by many to be some of the nicest folks you'll ever encounter in the Caribbean?
Why is Bonaire pointed to as one of the first islands in the Carib to establish a marine park? Also one of the first islands to ban spearfishing.
Why is Bonaire considered to be the home of diving freedom with some of the most economical diving in the entire Caribbean?

Personally, I think the answers are quite apparent.

Every time you try to discuss the real problem here the threads get hit with those who want to hijack with the good stories. Sure it's good there, but the bad still exists seemingly because the authorities do very, very little.

 

[DiveMaven]

 

[DandyDon]

And those who hate to see it discussed, regardless of how real it is.

 

[rjchandler]

well while we are on the subject of perennial internet threads:

spare air
deep air
aldora
pony bottle
dir

rollon' -rollin' rollin' lets keep those posts arollin'

 

[helimvee]

Let's keep things real. Of course there is crime on Bonaire. This is not a liveaboard where there is a fixed number of people on board or an all-inclusive with armed guards on the premises. This is a small island with communities where people live and work. It is a divers paradise to us but it is home to them.

Can the police on Bonaire stop the crime? Can the police in any community stop crime? Of course not. Crime prevention involves much more than just police patrols and a criminal justice system.

It is unfortunate that people have had expensive items stolen and they have a right to be upset. But, these things happen, it doesn't make it right, but it is true. It could just as easily have been a bag disappearing while enroute to Bonaire.

If you are that concerned about crime on Bonaire, then don't go - but you will be missing a great dive vacation. If you go, take some precautions. If you stay in a house off the beaten path, realize that your risk is greater. If you park at a secluded site, realize that your risk is greater.

It has been said before and will be said in many threads in the future - use common sense. That will not guarantee anything, but it will decrease the risk.

Yes, I have been to Bonaire - 5 times and will go back as soon as I can arrange it. The first trip was at a place off the beaten path. The sliding door had a very flimsy lock and poor site security. We did not return there. Now we only stay at newer places with proper security. It costs more, but that is life.

Okay, my rant is over.

 

[Zieg]

I made the same mistake that Walter did. From the title of the thread I thought that someone was robbed not burglarized.

I understand Walter's stance on the awkward use of language. I know many people use both terms interchangeably but it can be confusing. Now I am the type of person when I see a disagreement of this type, I'll look it up. Here is what I found,

From Dictionary.com:

Robbery
1. The act, the practice or an instance of robbing.
2. law. The felonious taking of the property of another from his or her person or in his or her immediate presence, against his or her will, by violence or intimidation.

Synonym: burglary

Also from the same source

Note: Robbery, in a strict sense differs from theft, as it is effected by force or intimidation, whereas theft is committed by stealth, or privately.


For burglary

: the act of breaking and entering an inhabited structure (as a house) esp. at night with intent to commit a felony (as murder or larceny); also : the act of entering or remaining unlawfully (as after closing to the public) in a building with intent to commit a crime (as a felony)
NOTE: The crime of burglary was originally defined under the common law to protect people, since there were other laws (as those defining larceny and trespass) that protected property. State laws have broadened the common-law crime. Entering at night is often no longer required and may be considered an aggravating factor. The building may be something other than a dwelling, such as a store or pharmacy. Some states (as Louisiana) have included vehicles under their burglary statute. There are degrees of burglary, and some of the usual aggravating factors are the presence of people and use of a deadly weapon.


So, I believe that Walter is correct. Walter is always correct. Actually, Walter doesn't make statements that are not true, and he usually can back up his statements with facts, not opinions.

It's like Deefstes thread titled "I got robbed in New Orleans". I stated reading it thinking he had actually gotten robbed, but instead he was taken or "conned" for $20 by some of the local talent. Big difference.

Now I know that some of you out there in cyberland have to get in the last word, as if that makes you the winner of any discussion, so go for it. Scan my post and pick at all the errors in spelling and grammar. Hey, I don't claim to be an English teacher. But IMHO, a more proper title for this thread should have been "Burglary".

To get back off the hijack and back on topic, Americans need to remember that not everywhere is home, that there are places where Americans stick out as marks and they have to pay more diligence to their surroundings.

 

[cappyjon431]

I made the same mistake that Walter did. From the title of the thread I thought that someone was robbed not burglarized.

I understand Walter's stance on the awkward use of language. I know many people use both terms interchangeably but it can be confusing. Now I am the type of person when I see a disagreement of this type, I'll look it up. Here is what I found,

From Dictionary.com:

Robbery
1. The act, the practice or an instance of robbing.
2. law. The felonious taking of the property of another from his or her person or in his or her immediate presence, against his or her will, by violence or intimidation.

Synonym: burglary

Also from the same source

Note: Robbery, in a strict sense differs from theft, as it is effected by force or intimidation, whereas theft is committed by stealth, or privately.


For burglary

: the act of breaking and entering an inhabited structure (as a house) esp. at night with intent to commit a felony (as murder or larceny); also : the act of entering or remaining unlawfully (as after closing to the public) in a building with intent to commit a crime (as a felony)
NOTE: The crime of burglary was originally defined under the common law to protect people, since there were other laws (as those defining larceny and trespass) that protected property. State laws have broadened the common-law crime. Entering at night is often no longer required and may be considered an aggravating factor. The building may be something other than a dwelling, such as a store or pharmacy. Some states (as Louisiana) have included vehicles under their burglary statute. There are degrees of burglary, and some of the usual aggravating factors are the presence of people and use of a deadly weapon.


So, I believe that Walter is correct. Walter is always correct. Actually, Walter doesn't make statements that are not true, and he usually can back up his statements with facts, not opinions.

It's like Deefstes thread titled "I got robbed in New Orleans". I stated reading it thinking he had actually gotten robbed, but instead he was taken or "conned" for $20 by some of the local talent. Big difference.

Now I know that some of you out there in cyberland have to get in the last word, as if that makes you the winner of any discussion, so go for it. Scan my post and pick at all the errors in spelling and grammar. Hey, I don't claim to be an English teacher. But IMHO, a more proper title for this thread should have been "Burglary".

To get back off the hijack and back on topic, Americans need to remember that not everywhere is home, that there are places where Americans stick out as marks and they have to pay more diligence to their surroundings.

It is nice to see that someone broke out a dictionary. I wish more of my former students would have. You will note that your dictionary definition states that "robbery" and "burglary" are synonyms (I don't need to define that). Now, throw into the mix that we are talking about English usage on other islands with different cultures and you might understand why these terms are used interchangeably in most areas of the Caribbean and the Bahamas.

When you write "So, I believe that Walter is correct. Walter is always correct. Actually, Walter doesn't make statements that are not true, and he usually can back up his statements with facts, not opinions," I really got a good laugh. So I guess all those folks living in the Caribbean (police as well as citizens) who use the term "robbery" for what Walter considers "burglary" are incorrect. Talk about a very limited world view.

My issue with Walter's response was that he came across very heavy handed with the original poster. To make a blanket statement that the OP's imprecise use of language reflects poorly on him is: 1. An opinion, not a fact. 2. Based on an Anglocentric definition and word use. No one has bothered to refute my analogy with the word "boot." 3. I was offended by Walter telling me that through his post I may have "learned something." I am a dissertation away from a PhD in English with a concentration in English as a Second Language and I can tell you without a doubt that Walter's use of definitions for the U.S. and its legal systems are appropriate, but to try to use those same definitions for other countries and other cultures smacks of ignorance.

I guess ignorance is bliss.

 

[Walter]

To make a blanket statement that the OP's imprecise use of language reflects poorly on him is: 1. An opinion, not a fact.

How could it be anything other than an opinion?

No one has bothered to refute my analogy with the word "boot."

Why should anyone refute your analogy about boot? It is both true and silly as an analogy since boot does have different definitions in different English speaking countries. Robbery does not. Robbery is misused in most (all?) English speaking countries. There is a difference. Using examples of people in various countries misusing a term is not the same as proving it has different definitions.

I was offended by Walter telling me that through his post I may have "learned something."

That says way more about you than about my post. I'm always happy to learn things. I'm saddened to hear you are not. I guess you've proven your last sentence.

As I said before, continue to use incorrect terminology, I really don't care how effectively you communicate.

 

[cappyjon431]

How could it be anything other than an opinion?

That was my point. The previous poster seemed to imply that you state facts, not opinions. My opinion was that it did not reflect poorly on the OP (I am not so quick to judge), just that he may have been using the term based on common accepted usage for the region of the world where the crime occured, not based on a strict legal definition.



Why should anyone refute your analogy about boot? It is both true and silly as an analogy since boot does have different definitions in different English speaking countries. Robbery does not. Robbery is misused in most (all?) English speaking countries. There is a difference. Using examples of people in various countries misusing a term is not the same as proving it has different definitions.

If it is commonly used in a country, the word has taken on what would be called common usage or a colloquialism. It is acceptable by their standards, both in a common sense and a legal sense. I cannot speak for all of the Caribbean, but here in Panama I interact with the police on a daily basis (yes, I volunteer to teach them English) and I can tell you that they call what we would normally term a "burglary" a "robbery." I would never be so "all knowing" as to tell them that their usage is wrong in their own country. It is not being "misused" if it is accepted for a particular country or culture. To claim otherwise smacks of imperialism/colonialism.



That says way more about you than about my post. I'm always happy to learn things. I'm saddened to hear you are not. I guess you've proven your last sentence.

Clearly an opinionated assumption. I am always happy to learn and that is why I have spent the greater portion of my life involved in higher education as either a student or teacher. What I detest is ignorance of other peoples, other countries, and other cultures and people who claim that "because this is how it is in the U.S., this is the only correct way."

As I said before, continue to use incorrect terminology, I really don't care how effectively you communicate.

I have no problem communicating, and neither did the originsal poster. Because of my experiences (and we are all products of our experiences), I was able to see the title of his thread and not assume what he was trying to say. I guess I just don't understand the cyberbullying thing of jumping on somebody for supposedly misusing language. Perhaps after 15,000+ posts on Scubaboard I will better understand.

 

[bqualls]

First, I understand the distinctions between burglary, robbery and theft very well.I've practiced criminal law for over 20 years. And I will tell you that in talking to potential jurors during jury selection in hundreds of jury trials, it has become clear to me that many if not most don't know the difference between robbery and burglary(let alone aggravated robbery,robbery,aggravated burglary, burglary, and breaking or entering) Like the original poster(spiritd1 on scubaboard a.k.a. Kym on bonaire talk), most laymen don't bother with the distinctions. I say we cut Kym some slack and look at what behavior she describes and post accordingly.
Second, Kym's post here was prompted by a thread that I started on Bonaire Talk entitled"Should we talk about bonaire crime on scubaboard instead?"(now found under community chat) I started this thread because Kym tried to relate how she had been a victim of a crime on Bonaire and had the audacity to do so without a police report. Her thread was quickly frozen--She just wanted to know what the Bonaire police were doing about crime. I was savaged by most posters(the bonaire cheerleaders) for my thoughts and defended by a few. I think Bonaire is a great place. There is crime there-- like everywhere. But , it is the only place I know of where where standard procedure is to leave you doors to the truck unlocked or deal with broken glass. That said ,I still plan to go back someday-after bali/komodo,png, and n.sulawesi.(so many places, so little time) In the meantime let's hope the Bonaire authorities will do their job and reduce crime to a minimum. The crime problem on Bonaire is certainly not being improved by Bonaire Talk's moderators and their policy of "no police report--then there must have been no crime". The net effect is to deny and hide the true degree of the problem and say to the forum members that they're not smart enough to spot the snake oil salesmen from the truth tellers. I'm glad this forum allows an unfettered discourse.End of rant.