"Riding your Computer Up" vs. "Lite Deco"

[Bob DBF]

Tourist diver or not, my fundamental objection to the NDL pablum that the OW/AOW agencies proffer is rooted in the obvious dereliction duty to continue seamless dive education. Deco is verboten until the OW/AOW diver chooses to flip his/her own switch and then be welcomed as an incoming tech diver?

OW is NDL diving and any trainer, as mine did, should lead by example and not be taking OW students into deco, however both spent a good amount of time discussing how to deal with accidental deco, as a matter of "rescue" training. This was done in '62 when I started diving (no card) and in '80 in a NAUI/PADI class. As for flipping a switch, that's how it was done in the 60's, no "tech" classes no "tech" divers, just read more of the Navy dive manual and find some real crazies ( in the vernacular of the day SCUBA = crazy) that were doing those dives and get taught the tricks. It may have been that way in the 80's but my diving didn't call for deco and now I catch a little now and then, but I'm getting too old for that crap anyway.

To me it's easier to follow a computer, too bad so many are in such a rush that they don't learn their computer well. The multi-day multi-dive trips can very subtly put you into deco without doing a particularly deep dive. Not knowing when your computer is giving you a ceiling could be problematic.

Funny story, but not at the time. I surface and my computer is flashing DECO, so I holler to my same ocean buddy, then drop down to 20'. The flashing deco goes off and I have no ceiling on the computer, everything looks normal for a surface. We hang there and use up our air, watching the N2 indication go down and NDL time go up, and finally surface. The flashing DECO starts again, but I figure it's broken or I missed a sentence in the book. After downloading the dive, I found I went in and out of deco quickly on the way upslope and missed it. The computer was trying to tell me I HAD been in deco during the dive, but I missed the line in the book. The good news was that my rate of breathing during the incident was only elevated slightly. It pays to read carefully.



Bob

 

[Bob DBF]

at least in the NorthEast. We dive same ocean

We obviously have very different philosophies about what buddy diving means. In fact, I think our philosophies are so different that I wouldn't want to buddy up with you.

Basking Ridge Diver is talking about "Same Ocean Buddies", which is not the same thing as Buddy diving. Same Ocean Buddies is one step up from Solo, as you are diving around friends of yours and might expect to see them on the dive and start rescue protocols if they overstay their dive time.

For the most part, I have found Solo and Same Ocean Buddies very responsible and will stick to buddy protocols when agreeing to Buddy dive, at least my close buddies and I will, although it might not look so at first glance. We dive the way we agree to dive, it's not like we were not trained properly.


Bob

 

[dmaziuk]

... my fundamental objection to the NDL pablum that the OW/AOW agencies proffer is rooted in the obvious dereliction duty to continue seamless dive education. Deco is verboten until the OW/AOW diver chooses to flip his/her own switch and then be welcomed as an incoming tech diver?

That we agree on.

As a Polish Russian Jewish Gypsy, I don't know if I'd qualify for GenX/Millenial/Whatever exactly -- I just think there is no switch. There is a sliding scale from "YOUR GONNA DIE!!!" to "based on the best current state of the art understanding, there is no reason why you should get bent", and that's what they should teach us tourist vacationers.

Where I work there's a saying: great thing about standards is there are plenty to choose from. And this: xkcd: Standards And here we're talking about a standard on something that the experts agree they don't understand, so... an army can do arbitrary standards because the CO sez so, but anywhere else it's just not going to fly.

 

[Storker]

Basking Ridge Diver is talking about "Same Ocean Buddies", which is not the same thing as Buddy diving. Same Ocean Buddies is one step up from Solo, as you are diving around friends of yours and might expect to see them on the dive and start rescue protocols if they overstay their dive time.

For the most part, I have found Solo and Same Ocean Buddies very responsible and will stick to buddy protocols when agreeing to Buddy dive, at least my close buddies and I will, although it might not look so at first glance. We dive the way we agree to dive, it's not like we were not trained properly.

Good point. I may have been a little too harsh in my reply, but IMO it was as a natural response to the tone in the post I replied to.

I completely agree that the whole point is to have a proper pre-dive chat, agree on how to dive, and to dive accordingly. I have no problem with same day, same ocean buddies as long as it's what has been agreed on (unless it's a club dive where I'm the safety officer, since our club's safety rules require proper buddies). However, same day, same ocean buddies (which is, in reality, two solo divers splashing at the same time) isn't for me, and I'd be quite seriously p...ed off if my buddy of the day followed that practice since I'd never agree on that.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Same ocean buddies means not buddies. This is a huge distinction to me and if an accident or death occurs I want to be able to say to the widow and children, we went down together, but we were not buddies. I hate diving with .,. We will stay together unless we get separated.,.. .. if we do that, I am not going looking for you until I have for finished my dive. I prefer to dive buddies or solo but this gray area of I will keep an eye on you if I am not doing something is stupid...Too bad we dive exactly like that often in the local area.

 

[Bob DBF]

I hate diving with .,. We will stay together unless we get separated.,.. .. if we do that, I am not going looking for you until I have for finished my dive.

I'm not interested in that style either, I would have to know why my buddy is missing. We usually splash together and at some point give each other the okey dokey, point the direction we are going, and wave bye bye.


Bob

 

[scubadada]

Funny how this thread about light deco has wandered into many other topics, now buddy diving. I do most of my diving in SE FL and most of it is drift. I generally dive solo, but, when I have a buddy, I have that buddy for the whole dive or until they surface. I generally carry the flag and make it very easy to keep track of me as I dive very slowly and steadily.

 

[lowviz]

OW is NDL diving and any trainer, as mine did, should lead by example and not be taking OW students into deco ...//...

Agreed. My proposed "OW Standard" DC program would flag you if you did. The "AOW Standard' DC program wouldn't. Simple progression of skills and risk. But that is just an exercise in futility, it will never happen...

... To me it's easier to follow a computer, too bad so many are in such a rush that they don't learn their computer well.

Indeed, and that is what this thread is all about.

Funny story, but not at the time. I surface and my computer is flashing DECO, so I holler to my same ocean buddy, then drop down to 20'. The flashing deco goes off and I have no ceiling on the computer, everything looks normal for a surface. We hang there and use up our air, watching the N2 indication go down and NDL time go up, and finally surface. The flashing DECO starts again ...

Scare tactics.

Basking Ridge Diver is talking about "Same Ocean Buddies", which is not the same thing as Buddy diving. Same Ocean Buddies is one step up from Solo ... For the most part, I have found Solo and Same Ocean Buddies very responsible ...//...

Same Ocean Buddies is rampant here. To me, it means that there are people like me in the water and it isn't beyond the realm of possibility that I could be asked to rise to the occasion and do my part to the best of my ability. No, I'm not watching anyone and nobody is watching me. I like it that way.

...//... great thing about standards is there are plenty to choose from. ...

Yep. Tell the agencies to put their big boy/girl pants on and pick one. Any one. Now we begin on the same page. "A beginning is the time for taking the most delicate care that the balances are correct."

Good point. I may have been a little too harsh in my reply, but IMO it was as a natural response to the tone in the post I replied to. ...

We tend to be a bit direct here, the tone was fine. BRD is one of the truly nicest divers I've ever had the pleasure of splashing with. -Don't know when he surfaced, we headed off in opposite directions...

On one particular meet-up night dive, he spent his entire time helping a diver unfamiliar with our conditions to enjoy back bay diving.

 

[lowviz]

Funny how this thread about light deco has wandered into many other topics, now buddy diving. ...

It's all good.

 

[scubadada]

It's all good.

Agreed