"Riding your Computer Up" vs. "Lite Deco"

[lowviz]

Ha!

I love the differing viewpoints in all this. Nice reminder that there are *serious* rec-only divers out there. So they want to squeeze every drop out of rec diving and aren't willing to make the quantum financial leap to intro to tech? I won't dispute that. Thanks for the wake-up call.

Tech. BTDT, the financial scars have healed. Just left with a bunch of tech gear that gets used now and again. I have most of my fun in shallower settings using the great latitude that my tech training allows me.

 

[dmaziuk]

@stuartv: +1
PADI tec 40 requires EAN plus 10+ logged nitrox dives to below 18m, plus AOW plus 10+ logged dives to below 30m. Who seriously expects me to do all that just so I am "allowed" to spend two extra minutes looking at eel garden at the bottom of El Aquila (sp?).

 

[DevonDiver]

@stuartv True. . . . but is it not equally as flippant for a 10-20 dives per year diver to start dicking around doing 'lite' deco because their sense of entitlement exceeds their knowledge and caution.. . . and the admitedly crappy, bargain bucket, 3 day OW course they waltzed through a decade before eventually placed some 'grossly unfair' restrictions on their Lemming-like desires to personally dispprove the Gas Laws of Physics?

Am I flippant? Do you have any idea what I've spent on diving tuition and equipment over the years? LOL

I'm far from flippant... I just don't support any notion of dumbing-down diving to placate a demographic whose sense of entitlement outstrips their willingness to make a reasonable commitment to obtain the necessary resources to ensure safety at their chosen parameters of diving endeavor.

. . forced into horrible compromises, inanely evasive tactics to 'trick' their instrumentation and excessive risk acceptance in their quest for some mediocre payback in time underwater...

... like "2 more minutes in the eel garden at El Aquila".

 

[DevonDiver]

. . . enjoy the time it gives you underwater. When time's up, time's up.

Yep...

Except that some people don't want to accept prudent limitations - not when they can 'extrapolate' from the contents of their Open Water manuals, seek approval on internet forums... so as to circumvent the 'greedy' dive industry and their money grabbing conspiracy theories about "DCS"... a fantasy ailement invented by agencies and computer manufacturers to boost revenues by selling training and equipment that was never 'needed' in the 1950s...

 

[DevonDiver]

It may not be so hard, but around here it is effing expensive! Buy or rent doubles and a deco bottle, a couple of extra regs, an extra computer or bottom timer, maybe a BP/W, etc.. And then course tuition anywhere I've checked runs around $1000 for TDI Adv Nitrox + Deco Procedures or equivalent.

Just a reminder that Tec40 can be undertaken in recreational config + a pony.

It can be done in just 2 days/4 dives.

There's really no excuse for this fudge-deco diving approach. . .

 

[lowviz]

Just a reminder that Tec40 can be undertaken in recreational config + a pony. ...//...

I was waiting for someone to bring that up.

There's really no excuse for this fudge-deco diving approach. . .

No fudge-deco involved at all.

It is all about recasting the most aggressive recreational NDL diving into conservative deco diving. Same limits, when the aggressive NDL diver times out, so does the lite deco diver.

Where is the problem?

 

[scubadada]

Just a reminder that Tec40 can be undertaken in recreational config + a pony.

It can be done in just 2 days/4 dives.

There's really no excuse for this fudge-deco diving approach. . .

I'm not surprised that additional training would be suggested. After a decade of light deco, I will pass. Nobody asked me for my Tec 40 cert.

 

[KenGordon]

If I understand correctly how these computers work, if you go into deco they 'assume' that it was unintentional, and inflict penalties as such. IOW, the computers' algorithms assume that the diver made an error, and because of that they may add additional required surface interval time, or do something else intended to change the diver's 'reckless' behavior in unintentionally going into deco. Maybe my understanding is not correct.

I don't think you understand this correctly. I have not met every computer made so maybe some do behave as you describe but I do use both a 'technical' Suunto the HelO2 which supports 8 gasses and helium and a Zoop which only supports one gas and would not be described as 'technical'. If diving only one gas they behave the same way. The main difference is the zoop includes the safety stop in time to surface and doesn't add deep stops, but get to a real ceiling and they are the same, get to your 3 to 6m stop and they give the same time when set to the same conservatism.

If I plan a dive with the Suunto planner it usually matches reasonably well. I will probably finish the final stop sooner than the plan because I didn't descend as fast or stay at the maximum depth exactly for the whole dive but I know I will have enough gas.

 

[KenGordon]

It may not be so hard, but around here it is effing expensive! Buy or rent doubles and a deco bottle, a couple of extra regs, an extra computer or bottom timer, maybe a BP/W, etc.. And then course tuition anywhere I've checked runs around $1000 for TDI Adv Nitrox + Deco Procedures or equivalent.

Seems like a lot to just flippantly tell a person who dives 10 or 20 dives per year to suck up when they go on vacation to FL or the Caribbean once or twice per year (yet still wants to maximize their bottom time when they do get to go).

ANDP is a whole lot more than learning to do a deco dive. It includes team stuff, accelerated deco, how to avoid breathing the wrong gas and generally a lot more than doing back gas deco requires.

Different mitigations to a twinset and a cylinder of deco gas are available. The trouble is that a twice a year holiday diver is going to have a hard time keeping their skill up. Adding the extra risk of deco may be too much. As I have said before, here we teach deco as standard practice. It is not a big deal, some people do lots some people do none. They are on the same boats and manage fine. But we have state funded chambers and helicopters and an effective (charitable) lifeboat system. There really is O2 on the boats and you speak the same language as the skipper. The surface intervals are long enough and you will usually be diving with people who have an interest in you being able to buy your round of an evening.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Is there no course that specifically teaches back gas deco considerations? Does some common-sense organization like BSAC cover this?