rEvo modifications, tweaks and customisations

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The answer depends on plate bevel quality.

Most plate bevels have sharp edges making it is impossible to tighten harness without fraying the webbing. If bevels are smooth, then you can easily tighten and loosen the webbing without damage. Smooth bevels reduce the need for quick releases.

After inspecting multiple plate manufactures, Heser stands out like the only company that creates good quality bevels. I am tempted to look at the rEvo plate, but at $500 it will be an expensive try.

I have a single continuous webbing harness on my rEvo with the standard 2 small plates. No QRs anywhere.

It may be getting a little fraying where it goes through the plates, but after 5 years (?) the fraying is still totally minor. Even if I had to replace my piece of webbing every 5 years, I still wouldn't feel the need to get a better plate that has smoother bevels...

I also don't find any real need to adjust mine. It works for my drysuit and it's totally fine (for ME) without adjusting even if I'm in a rash guard and shorts.
 
@stuartv what so you think about the merits of replacing the revo Mav with a Fathom needle valve and blocking the CMF?

Stuart is a good dude, so please don’t give him a heart attack. Well, don’t give anyone a heart attack.

I am sure Stuart will reply with “no, no, no.” So to make his job easier, I’ll give you an unsolicited reply: flexibility.

O2 consumption varies with task load. By adjusting the needle valve, you can dial in addition so that it almost matches your O2 consumption which will lead to few manual additions. It is good if you dive profile may include different workloads. It is also an option if you MAV block breaks and you find a deal on needle valve block. Otherwise, there is no good reason other than trying it out. Which is a good reason for me.

You can block the CMF and do a few other things, like turning your unit into a pure manual CCR by removing everything solenoid related. If you do that, you may able to use standard DS4 regulators as you won't need a solenoid or an ADV feed. I want to find a mini TI unit at a decent price and play with it a bit; will keep you posted.
 
@stuartv what so you think about the merits of replacing the revo Mav with a Fathom needle valve and blocking the CMF?

Disclaimer: I have no training on diving a CCR with a needle valve. Whatever I say about diving with a needle valve could be wrong. The following could all be total rubbish.

I think my rEvo works just fine just like it is.

From what I can gather, changing from a CMF to a needle valve (I don't believe you would remove the MAV - but I suppose you might change to a different type/style of MAV) would mean adjusting the needle valve for different depths and/or different work loads. Maybe that would mean never manually injecting O2, and doing an adjustment to the needle less often than a diver with the CMF would manually inject O2.

Maybe.

The "work" of manually injecting O2 on the rEvo, with a properly tuned CMF configuration (i.e. properly set IP on the O2 reg), is pretty minimal. And, I think it's good to have to do it as it doesn't let you "assume" the pO2 will stay exactly right and thereby never do anything to control it. It kind of forces you to frequently monitor your pO2 in a way that a needle valve does not. You SHOULD frequently monitor pO2 at all times. But, it seems like a needle valve will allow you to get away with not being diligent.

Well, unless of course, you just let the controller and solenoid maintain your pO2 for you. That will also let you be lulled into not paying attention because it's just "always right". But, the difference is the solenoid is smart and it will adjust for changing conditions, even if you aren't paying attention. A needle valve won't. A controller and solenoid won't kill you for not paying attention unless it actually malfunctions. A needle valve could kill you for not paying attention even when it is working perfectly. I think, anyway (not being trained on a needle valve).

Regardless, the needle valve option seems like it just really does not save me any significant amount of work or mental bandwidth. Flying the unit manually is easy. It must be pretty close to as easy as flying it with a needle valve. Flying it with the solenoid and just monitoring the pO2 is even easier than flying with a needle valve or manually with a CMF.

On the other hand, it seems like there is a risk of having the needle adjusted for a certain flow and then changing conditions such that it will drive the pO2 right up into the danger zone if you don't adjust its flow back down.

Not being trained with a needle valve, I am just speculating that there are a variety of ways that could happen. E.g. as just one example, you are finning steadily against some amount of current. You adjust the needle to accommodate that. Then you stop or substantially reduce your workload. If you don't remember to adjust the needle, I expect that it could take you right on into Hyperoxia Land.

The standard rEvo configuration with a CMF won't do that.

I don't like having to remember to do "stuff" when conditions are changing (or ever, really, if I can help it). The conditions changing could turn out to be a distraction that makes me forget to do something.

Obviously, there are things we HAVE to do when conditions change. We have to vent the loop and manage our BCD when we ascend. We have to add gas to our BCD and also make sure we don't spike our pO2 too high when we descend.

Adding MORE things we have to do when conditions are changing seems less than ideal. Especially when it's the kind of thing you might not immediately notice if you forget to do it. Your pO2 creeping up is not as obvious as what happens if you ascend some and forget to dump some gas from your loop or BCD.

TL;DR: The factory setup works fine for me. I have no motivation to "home brew" my rEvo into something else. I don't see any benefit that makes it worth the bother (to ME).

To anyone who DOES do something like that, I sincerely hope you will get proper training on how to safely dive your new rEvostein.
 
egardless, the needle valve option seems like it just really does not save me any significant amount of work or mental bandwidth. Flying the unit manually is easy. It must be pretty close to as easy as flying it with a needle valve. Flying it with the solenoid and just monitoring the pO2 is even easier than flying with a needle valve or manually with a CMF.

I don't like having to remember to do "stuff" when conditions are changing (or ever, really, if I can help it). The conditions changing could turn out to be a distraction that makes me forget to do something.

Adding MORE things we have to do when conditions are changing seems less than ideal. Especially when it's the kind of thing you might not immediately notice if you forget to do it. Your pO2 creeping up is not as obvious as what happens if you ascend some and forget to dump some gas from your loop or BCD.
this is spot one - my conclusion is if you doing deep stuff ( below 75m) then you need to not be having to add one more tasks than you need to - assuming youve got your skills sorted deep diving is 90% mental.

I dont like doing deep dives with all sorts of -"if this happens Ill do this scenario" or have some potential issue to monitor you need to have all the things like that totally sorted and keep it simple so you can fully concentrate on the dive and your surroundings - things can escalate pretty quickly at depth potentially adding significant deco/gas/scrubber/exposure demands
 
this is spot one - my conclusion is if you doing deep stuff ( below 75m) then you need to not be having to add one more tasks than you need to - assuming youve got your skills sorted deep diving is 90% mental.

I dont like doing deep dives with all sorts of -"if this happens Ill do this scenario" or have some potential issue to monitor you need to have all the things like that totally sorted and keep it simple so you can fully concentrate on the dive and your surroundings - things can escalate pretty quickly at depth potentially adding significant deco/gas/scrubber/exposure demands

Check out the link below and click on Oxygen Addition. Fathom explains needle valve benefits in general:

 
Check out the link below and click on Oxygen Addition. Fathom explains needle valve benefits in general:


The first part pointedly ignores an hCCR, like the rEvo, and only talks about the disadvantages of an eCCR.

Diving a rEvo with a set point set to 0.1 lower than the desired pO2, and flying it manually, is not what I (or most, I think) would call "a lot of work". With a properly set IP on the O2 reg, O2 addition (whether done manually or by the solenoid) is not needed nearly as often as with an eCCR.

The page says right on it "the only real drawback of a CMF system is a depth limitation".

You can adjust your rEvo 1st stage* so that the CMF continues to work in the 100 to 120 meter range. Possibly by using a stiffer spring (in an Apeks 1st stage) to make the IP stable at higher IP settings. Mine is good to 100m as it is, with the stock spring.

The page even says they modify an Apeks DS4 (basically the same thing rEvo used for O2 regs until they changed over to Mares, which come already prepared to accommodate higher IPs) to reach higher IPs for greater depth capability.

So, comparing the Fathom needle valve arrangement to a rEvo CMF:

- they can both be adjusted to work at the same maximum depth.
- the rEvo is not adjustable for O2 flow while in the water.
- the needle is adjustable for O2 flow while in the water.
- the CMF is at higher risk than a needle of being blocked/plugged/clogged.
- the needle has the risk of flowing too much O2 and making the loop hyperoxic.
- the CMF has no risk of being adjusted in the water and making the loop hyperoxic.
- with either one, once you exceed the max depth of the fixed-IP O2 reg, you have to connect another source of O2 and run it manually to maintain your pO2 until you ascend back into the operating range of the O2 reg.

Have I missed anything?

So, the first question I have for you is: Is the maximum depth of your (stock) rEvo and having to run it manually while deeper actually an issue for you?

Is it just me or does it seem kind of ironic that Fathom says the only real drawback of a CMF system is a depth limitation, but the Fathom has exactly the same depth limitation as a rEvo (and uses the same O2 reg as the older rEvos)?

When I have dived deeper than my rEvo's max, connecting offboard O2 and flying it manually was a non-issue for me. At that depth, the pO2 drops very slowly, so manual injection is not required very often at all. And, I have not done and do not anticipate any time soon doing a dive where I remain that deep for more than a few(-ish) minutes. Staying deeper than 350 feet or so for very long is just not on my dance card.

Also, do you feel like your CMF getting or being clogged is something that concerns you? I verify my CMF flow every time I do my build check list. And if it does get partially or completely blocked during a dive, that just means I or my solenoid are injecting O2 more often. I don't see that as any bigger of a risk than my solenoid dying during a dive. I.e. an annoyance, at best. And really, if it's not clogged when I start the dive, what are the chances it will get clogged during the dive? From what? The dirt coming out of my O2 cylinder/reg?

I read about an incident once. I think the diver died. The report I read said that their rebreather had an orifice for flowing O2 and it had (apparently) gotten clogged or blocked by salt crystals. I don't recall that it said specifically what CCR the diver was using, but it seems like it surely could have been a rEvo (and the diver TOTALLY not paying attention to their pO2).

If it was a rEvo and the CMF was blocked by salt crystals, then that is something that happened before the diver got in the water. I.e. salt water got in there on a previous dive and then was allowed to dry and salt crystals to form. And that tells me that (if it was a rEvo) the diver did not perform the steps on their build checklist correctly and verify that their CMF was flowing. But, they died because they didn't monitor their pO2, not because of a blocked CMF.

In other words, I personally do not find a CMF to be dangerous at all. The risk of blockage is very low (with modest maintenance and correct performance of the check list) and the consequences of it happening are very mild.

Lastly, the practical benefit that you have called out is being able to adjust the needle for a higher flow when you are working and then adjust it back down when you are not working. That lets you work while having to manually inject O2 less often than you would with a CMF.

Is that it? That's the one and only practical benefit? And in exchange you adopt a system that adds to your rEvo diving the POTENTIAL to forget to adjust it back down and thereby pump your loop into hyperoxic territory? And you also add the additional task of actually adjusting your flow up and down throughout the course of your dive? Presumably that also means monitoring your pO2 even more closely following an adjustment, to make sure your new setting is "correct"? Your HUD flashes "wrong" and you have to think about and decide whether to manually add O2 or adjust your needle or both?

I like learning new stuff. I appreciate the link to Fathom and getting to read up on the thought process behind that part of the Fathom. Thank you for posting that!

If I am still missing something here, I look forward to your explanation(s)!

* it's not an absolutely simple subject. The diver's metabolic rate is a factor here. Depending on the diver, adjusting for a deeper max depth could require a stiffer spring in the reg and/or a different size orifice in the CMF.
 
Regardless, the needle valve option seems like it just really does not save me any significant amount of work or mental bandwidth.

What is the actual capacity of bandwidth we are dealing with? 😂

I actually have dived with both a cmf and a needle valve back to back to compare on my homemade unit.

I have a fathom needle valve. I had the subgravity needle valve. And I have a custom cmf mav that I designed.

To be completely square the beginning and the end of the dive was the only spot I noticed any difference with the needle valve versus the cmf.

The needle valve actually causes more bandwidth to be used.

The cmf was brainless.

I did switch back to the needle valve because as the cmf had shown if I go from swimming to observing an item then I don't have a decay rate that I prefer for the ppo2. You never set the needle valve so that your ppo2 never decays. Even if it's a slow decay it's always decaying and I believe as I have found that is the best way to do it.

Needle valves are nice. I sold my custom MAV I have a second one from the same batch I made if I feel like it I'll use that someday.

.0030 and about 195 PSI was perfect for me on the cmf. Maybe every 7 minutes I had to give it a manual bump while scootering.
 
What is the actual capacity of bandwidth we are dealing with? 😂

Just BARELY enough... LOL :D

The needle valve actually causes more bandwidth to be used.

The cmf was brainless.

Thank you for that confirmation.

I did switch back to the needle valve because as the cmf had shown if I go from swimming to observing an item then I don't have a decay rate that I prefer for the ppo2. You never set the needle valve so that your ppo2 never decays. Even if it's a slow decay it's always decaying and I believe as I have found that is the best way to do it.

So, am I correct that if you set the needle for when you are swimming, if you totally stop and you don't adjust the needle, it could take you hyperoxic?
 

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