Resort's " New Normal " Rule - No AIR 2 or diving your long hose

[Colliam7]

I have no reason to think that the Buddy Dive policies reflect anything other than a sincere effort to protect staff and customers. If dive staff get sick, Buddy Dive doesn't have a unlimited reservoir of dive professional talent to immediately draw from as replacements. If customers / guests get sick, they might take a 'publicity' hit. An outbreak on the island, or at the resort, would have very negative business consequences.

There may well be some insurance benefit. I can't speak for Bonaire, but speaking with two different shop owners / managers here in the US, there has been no particular encouragement coming from their insurance carriers (dive operations, and property) to do anything specific, such as establishing a policy document. Certainly, PADI has been proactive in offering support, ideas, recommendations to shops and resorts, so the Buddy document might also reflect some degree of encouragement from PADI.

 

[Mike Walker]

Yes, but that's different. That is the public ignoring the rules. The implication of those previous posts is that the resort would ignore the rules, once they've posted them.

There's a big difference between 'ignoring' and 'selectively enforcing'.

Also, as much as some divers like to believe that the word of a dive operator/guide/training organization is some sort of 'law' handed down by the deity of their choice, the reality is that the vast majority of polices are nothing more than commercial decisions and the operators are free to enforce or not enforce them however they see fit. A smart business (and a smart human) will pick and choose which of 'the rules' they follow for themselves and/or impose on others based on the scenario at hand. This makes the sheep uncomfortable but it's the only way our species has managed to get as far as it has.

The operator in question is making a good effort and should not be getting the flak they are for doing so.
But to think what they've written now and how things will work in 3 months in practice will be identical is absurd.
They will do what they need to do to balance their own safety, customer safety and customer satisfaction.

Its great such signs don't protect owners or employers here in the UK. If someone is injured from something falling, and the owner/employer just put up warning sign without taking other action to prevent injury, they would be crucified in the Courts (and most likely find their insurer would walk away).

It gets a bit more unclear when the source of the hazard is continuously variable and put in place by mother nature.
All I know is that the companies that own billion dollar office towers don't like getting sued and have plenty of lawyers on staff.
The result has been sandwich board signs on the sidewalk 'caution: falling ice'. This seems to have adequately protected them for many years.

(Certainly, for materials under human control on a job site the standard of care is much higher)

 

[tursiops]

But to think what they've written now and how things will work in 3 months in practice will be identical is absurd.

And they never said it would be applicable in 3 months. In fact, they said it might change immediately: "This document is based on what we know today and that might change again tomorrow. We will continue to monitor the latest trends and will adapt our operations and this document based on new insights and our experiences."

 

[scubadada]

Hi @uncfp

I'm wishing us all the very best of luck in reopening and getting back to the activities we love, including diving. Luck might be all we have at this point.

 

[Gareth J]

T

It gets a bit more unclear when the source of the hazard is continuously variable and put in place by mother nature.
All I know is that the companies that own billion dollar office towers don't like getting sued and have plenty of lawyers on staff.
The result has been sandwich board signs on the sidewalk 'caution: falling ice'. This seems to have adequately protected them for many years.

(Certainly, for materials under human control on a job site the standard of care is much higher)

Mike

What would be acceptable defence in the US courts won't always fly in the UK, or some other legal jurisdictions (Europe). It is a common mistake made by American companies.

When you do a PADI, TDI etc course, you are required to sign a wavier. It is part of the training agency requirements, if the school/instructor failure to follow that requirement, the training agency will void your instructor /school status.
I have signed a lot of these over the years on various courses provided by American agencies in the UK, so that the instructor complies with the agency requirements. In the UK they have no validity, the responsibility stays with the instructor and training agency. In fact, getting a customer to sign them is actually more likely to increase the damages, British courts do not like companies attempting to avoid their legal duty, (particularly duty of care,) and intentional attempt to do so often results in a more punitive response.
Ignorance is no defence, however, if it can be proven you new of a risk, and took no mitigating action, you are in far more trouble.

 

[Marie13]

@Gareth J

What does BSAC have in the way of waivers or similar?

 

[Edward3c]

@Gareth J

What does BSAC have in the way of waivers or similar?

The only forms required are medical self declarations, one for try-dives, and an annual one for diving.

 

[Mike Walker]

Mike
What would be acceptable defence in the US courts won't always fly in the UK, or some other legal jurisdictions (Europe). It is a common mistake made by American companies.

And vice-versa I'm sure... but since I'm not American nor talking about the US in my example....

Even in the UK a boundary of reason has to be drawn (though I agree that it tends to be quite a bit hihger than .
You can't stop snow. Snow sometimes turns to ice and occasionally falls off things.
I'm not saying the signs are the only effort being made - but they are part of a strategy to show 'reasonable effort' in a situation where absolute safety is simply impossible.

What's the appropriate solution when there is no absolute solution? It's no different than common acceptance that for a recreational diver a single spare 2nd stage attached to a common first stage and in reasonable proximity to a buddy is 'reasonable' redundancy. Why not 6 buddies, why not 12 spare regulators... just in case.... At some point a line is drawn - even in the UK.

The COVID situation is exactly the same. All we can do is decrease the odds of transmission to a reasonable level.
Doing that effectively means emphasizing solutions with low effort/expense and high return (hand washing, for example) and steering away from actions that create excessive collateral damage (24 hour curfews, for example).

The 'shout fire in a crowded theatre' technique that was used at the start of this by governments caught off-guard has proven to be a complete disaster.
Only now are we starting to get more balanced messaging and policy from some of the more pragmatic sources with the clear understanding of 'we can't save everyone'.

I maintain my expectation that in the dive industry the messaging will be stronger than the real-world actions.
There's a lot of low hanging fruit on a dive boat/resort to minimize transmission while not scaring away customers.
The op in question seems to do pretty well - presumably they are experienced at finding that balance.

 

[chillyinCanada]

That's interesting. My local grocery store is a Giant. There is an employee at the one way entrance/exit observing all patrons. Face coverings are required of all shoppers and is enforced at entry. The employee makes an entry on a tablet, not sure if that is tracking number of shoppers in the store or what. All employees wear masks. Though not required, there are at least 3, well stocked, cart cleaning stations on the way into the store. Cashier stations are run with a queue, controlled by an employee. The only thing they have done away with are the well marked, one way aisles. These were previously also controlled with reminders by employees, they were eliminated in the last 2 weeks.

Maybe this just reflects differences in the states and/or communities in which we reside

(I love the one way aisles and I hope they become part of the new normal. Now let's get back on topic.)

 

[chillyinCanada]

Hi @uncfp

I'm wishing us all the very best of luck in reopening and getting back to the activities we love, including diving. Luck might be all we have at this point.

If I wanted to dive and Bonaire was open and had available flights to it from my home location, I'd be willing to find a way to abide by their request.