rescue: underwater unconscious diver at 100ft -what to do?

[mnj1233]

Thanks for the quick reply. Added margin is good, just wish they wouldn't call it mandatory -- I'm an engineer, when someone uses a term like that it is a red flag.

In my proffession the word "Shall" carries all the weight.

 

[markfm]

For things written natively in English, yes, "shall" is the imperative -- the contractor "shall", while the customer "will". I'm used to working a lot of international activities, however, and often see things specified as "mandatory" due to vagaries of translations.

 

[String]

Anyone want to explain to me what a "mandatory safety stop" is ?! IF this is a required stop then surely its a decompression stop. IF it isnt a deco stop then surely its optional.

 

[kensuguro]

thank you all for very quick replies. So I guess the verdict is to slowly ascend and skip the safety if situation permits. I just heard of a rebreather guy who went unconscious at 180ft on a trimix (or some tech situation like that), and the buddy sent him shooting up... which seems to have finished him off. On the surface, eyes red, blood coming out of his mouth.. I thought to myself, what was the right way to do it? Stories like that gets you thinking.

Thanks for the quick reply. Added margin is good, just wish they wouldn't call it mandatory -- I'm an engineer, when someone uses a term like that it is a red flag.

Yeah, I agree too. PADI says things to scare you, or make it clear to you that you "shouldn't" be doing something, and then they're saying it to be conservative. That's okay for a normal dive, it's safer that way, but in a rescue, when you need to know what your "real" limits are, it can be very confusing. Safety stops being one of them.

Here's another question about rescues, or the buddy system in general.. are you more inclined to save your buddy or let him go? Just your basic start point and maybe a reason would be nice. For me, I'm inclined to save my buddy because it's usually my wife, but if it's a stranger, I'd be very quick in giving up for my own safety.

You hear about it all the time.. instructors and students dieing in resort locations.. like an AOW crash course with a student who hasn't dove since getting certified, with a 2 year in-between or something.. If it was me, sure I'd attempt a rescue, but not die for him.

 

[Puffer Fish]

DeepseaDan - great reponse

 

[TeddyDiver]

My way of looking at it is that the DCS risk is a very slowly changing curve with time-depth exposure. Whether or not something is "mandatory" depends a lot upon the circumstances.

With an unconscious diver at 100' I'd go with the older standard (such as old US Navy table) of 60fpm straight to the surface.

Agree! And having DCS after taking a risk under rescue ascending is not fatal like drowning. Remember also unconsiousnes caused by too high PO2 causes the risk of embolia instead of drowning during ascend..

 

[DeepSeaDan]

DeepseaDan - great reponse

...I'd just like to add that my perspective comes partly from my experiences over many years as a Diver-Medic in the offshore oilfields, & primarily from my work as a Fire-Medic. I assist in resucitative efforts for v.s.a. patients on a weekly basis, which gives me a realistic perspective on the difficulties of re-starting human life. We deal mostly with the elderly & / or those suffering some form of cardiac disease - those individuals in society who are most likely to experience sudden death. In diving, cardiac arrest is very often the result of pre-existing heart problems, both diagnosed & un-diagnosed, where the participants exerts themselves beyond the limits of their compromised c.v. system. It is a stark reminder for all divers to be heart-health concious.

Regretably, we have a mere :10 window of opportunity to intervene for someone in cardiac arrest, before permanent neurological damage occurrs ( the exception could be ice-water drowning, where the potential for recovery is dramatically increased thanks to the mamallian diving reflex...). This fact must remain foremost in our minds when we "go to the wall" to try to save a drowned diver; this again being circumstances dependent.

For those of you who go through such an experience, pay close attention to your own personal emotions post-event - the effects on you ( emotionally ) can sometime take months to manifest themselves. Be as kind to yourself as you were for the casualty, & seek assistance if you feel you are experiencing p.-t.s.d. ( post-traumatic stress disorder ).

Best,
D.S.D.

 

[BigJetDriver]

The most common sense approach to emergency response is to remember to refrain from locking one's thinking inside a box ( sorry, that metaphor is grossly over-used! ), by that I mean one must be able to adapt procedures to varying situations. Equally important is to remember your priorities:

> YOUR ( Rescuer ) safety comes absolutely FIRST.

> People live & die by way of A B C & bleeding.

With those primary criteria in mind, react as safely & as quickly as you can. With open circuit equipment, an "unconcious" casualty is likely a " v.s.a." ( vital signs absent ) casualty ( an exception could be a witnessed O2 tox. victim, where the buddy takes control instantly & protects the diver's airway while surfacing...), who has likely drowned. Such a casualty needs the surface & a flat, hard platform ( for resucitation ) as quickly as can be safely managed.

How you achieve your primary objectives can be analogised to a mechanic with a box full of tools, where you are the "Rescue Mechanic", & your "tool box" is your mind's store of retrievable procedural options, adapted to the circumstances you find yourself in.

As to your scenario of an "unconcious" casualty @ 100', consider these thoughts:

> nature of casualty ( who is it? your buddy? An unknown diver you "happened upon?" )

If it is your buddy, you should have a good idea of the circumstances of their unconciousness, provided you were " buddy diving" - not "kinda diving together". You would then base your response on the known circumstances. Much of what you do will be based on your knowledge of your own personal capabilities & limitations. You MUST be honest with yourself, or risk personal injury in trying to do things beyond your limits. This may include allowing a casualty an unescorted trip to the surface because a controlled ascent together was beyond your abilities. Many a well-intentioned rescuer has suffered the consequences of striving to assist beyond what they can safely achieve, often with tragic results. Resist.

If you "happen upon" an unresponsive diver, they have likely drowned. You now must first consider your own circumstances:

> what is my buddy & mine's dive schedule? ( that's right - you SHOULD have another person along to assist in recovering this person to surface! ).

> How do "we" safely, effectively, get this person to the surface?

You priorities are now:

> your safety
> their airway ( protect it as best you can )
> their buoyancy ( control it as best you can )
> the surface ( as quickly & safely as possible )

Once on surface:

> all get positive

> check breathing. No breathing? Try several rescue breaths as best you can, if there is no response to ventillations, then...

...decide - how close is an adequate platform for c.p.r.? If your close, make all speed for it ( I personally wouldn't slow our speed up by trying to breathe for the casualty en route - they need circulating blood to move any O2 I give them, & I can't move their blood in the water ).

...if said platform is a long way off, tow & breathe for them the best you can, & hope for a miracle.

...then again, hope for a miracle always.

Best Fishes,
D.S.D.

Folks,

I rarely make this kind of statement on a public board, but I have to say that this is one of the, if not "THE", best logical approaches to the dive rescue problem that I have seen.

You need to save this. Read it, and re-read it, and make it part of your memory banks!

Well said, Dan!

Rob

 

[Gary D.]

I have to say that this is one of the, if not "THE", best logical approaches to the dive rescue problem that I have seen.

You need to save this. Read it, and re-read it, and make it part of your memory banks!

Well said, Dan!

Rob

Agreed

Gary D.

 

[DandyDon]

Folks,

I rarely make this kind of statement on a public board, but I have to say that this is one of the, if not "THE", best logical approaches to the dive rescue problem that I have seen.

You need to save this. Read it, and re-read it, and make it part of your memory banks!

Well said, Dan!

Rob

Thanks for the suggestion. After rereading it, I copied it and sent it to myself as a PM to be kept in my Keepers forlder. Will review more as indicated.

Back to orginal post, while I will try to remind myself to protect my own safety, while attempting to bring the victim up as safely as possible - I think airway open to release possible air in lungs would be the victims biggest need on ascent, yes? - I would still be willing to skip a "suggested safety stop" in hopes of saving him without huting myself. If I am at 100 ft, then I am certainly diving from a boat with at least a mate and O2 on boad, and I want to get the mate's help with the victim as soon as possible, as well as get the O2 out for us both perhaps.

The thought of returning to 20 ft for an extended safety stop as gas allows comes to mind, but I doubt I'd do it even if there were two professionals onboard to deal with the victim. It might not be that safe for me to return to 20 ft alone as upset as I would be in the situation, and - with the amount of time involved in getting the victim onboard, would it be too late to replace the safety stop anyway? I think that O2 kit would be my next move for me - if only as a precaution.

What if I had 5 min of deco obligation? I shouldn't, but if I did, then I'd want to get the victim as close to the boat as possible, while keeping myself at deco depth, then allow him to float up to the boat in hopes that the mate would see him and take action - I think.