Rescue Diver Course - I can't recommend it based on my recent experience

[Kevrumbo]

The best recreational diver Rescue Course --and continuing education for EMS professionals in Diving Accident Management training-- in the world. is here in SoCal:

USC Catalina Hyperbaric Chamber

 

[DaleC]

I thought your initial post was satire or sarcasm. Nice to see you got everything in a kid-gloves "controlled condition". If everything were controlled conditions with no surprises then there would be no purpose in having a rescue class because no one would require rescue. I guess with the stress of life you certainly shouldn't expect to be stressed during a class that simulates emergency life or death scenarios.

And you obviously don't understand the basics of education.

In order to create a positive stress environment the participants need one thing:
Competence
If you don't have that you create a negative stress experience.
Show me the data that suggests stressing to failure embeds correct skills in a student because I know of no such training model that suggests such.

Take a Grade 1 speller and throw them into a Grade 2 spelling bee and you accomplish nothing more than failure. Saying it's a tough world out there and the student will face those sorts of challenges in the future is moronic, and not surprisingly, professional educators don't do it. They spend time in the classroom, developing basic competency. When they feel the students have that, they create a challenge (bee) appropriate to the grade.

But, nothing surprises me in the vast ghetto of the unregulated dive industry; where people just make it up as they go, no one is accountable, and being an instructor is as much about stroking ones own ego as creating safe competent divers. After all, if the student fails it must be their fault .. right. Not everyone is meant to be a diver (both a truth and the perfect cop-out).

 

[letterboy]

Or the guy assumed the student had what he considered basic competencies... Apparently he was wrong...

 

[phoenix31tt]

In order to create a positive stress environment the participants need one thing:
Competence
If you don't have that you create a negative stress experience.
Show me the data that suggests stressing to failure embeds correct skills in a student because I know of no such training model that suggests such.

Take a Grade 1 speller and throw them into a Grade 2 spelling bee and you accomplish nothing more than failure.

1. if I read correctly though, in this scenario the guy did not fail.. as a matter of fact he seemed to have handled the class well... he just wouldve preffered a different approach based on what he understand he was supposed to do

2. That's a false comparison you are making... this would be more akin to taking a Grade 2 student who has been given material to learn, and also given some prior instruction (al la confined water portion) then sending them to another teacher to put them in a simulated spelling bee... he was not given anything he should not have been able to handle given his confined water training and reading material...

Some people keep going say that he is supposed to have been taught prior to the class and miss the fact that he indeed was... based on his on quote of doing all the reading AND confined water skills.. which as i said before is the training before the practical...

 

[DaleC]

Did not fail? How could a pass/fail mean anything at that point in the game. At the skills acquisition stage it's a meaningless descriptor.

If you think reading some material and doing a practice in the pool equals competency for all the skills covered by rescue then we have a different view of what that means. Unless you bring prior related experience or some natural talent to the table you are just trying to cope with a new diving paradigm. It's like thinking you are competent to perform first aid after only taking the EFR class. At that point, the main skill one has learned is recognizing the need for aid, not the skills needed to provide it (well).

But mainly, I was responding above to TC's sarcastic comment to Mike who appears to have done the thing we tell people to do on the board. Research your instructor. And the instructor who appears to have done a good job of teaching rescue skills.

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What does the whole "we're gonna surprise you with a scenario" thing teach anyways - that life is full of surprises? It's just a poor approach to basic skills acquisition.

How about training people to use twinsets the same way. Read about valve drills, do a couple of practices in a pool, and then go for an open water dive in which the instructor will sneak up and do multiple shutdowns behind your back. Hey - that's real life isn't it.
No. You learn the skill. You do the skill repeatedly, every time you do a dive, until you gain competency. And then you challenge your strength by simulating failures.

 

[letterboy]

so at what point should one be task loaded during a rescue course?

I have been a dive leader with classes that have lost/loose fins, loss of buoyancy control, "distracted" divers and inability to clear. . . did this happen on every dive? no, but it can.

should this course have included this many scenarios so close together? maybe, maybe not.

perhaps several things occurred:

- the instructor thought the diver had the capacity to complete the tasks
- the student and instructor failed to set proper expectations before the dives
- the instructor didn't care
- the student didn't want to put forth the required effort
- the instructors wanted to be done asap so they ran the student through all the requirements fast (I know this would never happen)
- the instructor wanted the student done the first day so they could all enjoy diving on day two

sure wish we could get the other side of this story. at least with both sides of the story we could extrapolate the truth, or some semblance. . .

 

[TONY CHANEY]

Did not fail? How could a pass/fail mean anything at that point in the game. At the skills acquisition stage it's a meaningless descriptor.

If you think reading some material and doing a practice in the pool equals competency for all the skills covered by rescue then we have a different view of what that means. Unless you bring prior related experience or some natural talent to the table you are just trying to cope with a new diving paradigm. It's like thinking you are competent to perform first aid after only taking the EFR class. .

Oh, you mean like this, "To give ya some background, you are correct I don't have many dives, but I grew up in the water and I was on swim teams my whole life and I am still a very avid swimmer. I am extremely comfortable in the water. True, this is not the same as having SCUBA experience, but it certainly helps. I have been CPR certified for 22 years also... so I am pretty comfortable with first aid and rescue practice, etc. I also come from a military family and have been involved in fighting disciplines since I was 5... so very comfortable in physical and mental stress and pushing beyond my limits. No worries there. My point in this background is I suspect I am much more likely to have been prepared for the course than the average diver, despite only having 16 logged dives under my belt."
That was from the OP!

 

[phoenix31tt]

Oh, you mean like this, "To give ya some background, you are correct I don't have many dives, but I grew up in the water and I was on swim teams my whole life and I am still a very avid swimmer. I am extremely comfortable in the water. True, this is not the same as having SCUBA experience, but it certainly helps. I have been CPR certified for 22 years also... so I am pretty comfortable with first aid and rescue practice, etc. I also come from a military family and have been involved in fighting disciplines since I was 5... so very comfortable in physical and mental stress and pushing beyond my limits. No worries there. My point in this background is I suspect I am much more likely to have been prepared for the course than the average diver, despite only having 16 logged dives under my belt."
That was from the OP!

exactly, a point I raised before... The OP expected he could handle the course easily and it seemed when reality smacked him in his face...

Would really love to hear the other side on this one





Sent from my Nokia Lumia 920

 

[DaleC]

Well, if that were true how would a middle aged sedentary person with limited water experience who is stepping outside their comfort zone by diving do? Do you think this describes a large segment of divers and if so is overly stressing them in rescue any benefit? Are we challenging their highly honed skill sets?

Some have said rescue is one step from turning pro (DM) so some stress should be expected. S'cuse me? I took OW and AOW immediately after and was pushed to then immediately take rescue. If I had done that I would have entered rescue with a whopping 1 deep dive. Again, the wild west of dive instruction being applied.
So yes, you are one step from turning Pro... a really crappy pro who only knows what the crappy pro before them taught.

 

[toddthecat]

Dale, are you even trying to make a point or are you just venting due to some sort of unhappy personal experience? On one hand you say that the OP shouldn't have been subjected to, what he describes, as being a horrible experience. Then you turn around and say it's good that he got the experience so he wouldn't be a "crappy pro".

You say my post about what Mike said was sarcasm. No, I wasn't being sarcastic at all when I said I believed his post was sarcasm or satire. I was being completely truthful.

You seem a little confused bud. Take a deep breath and relax a little.