Rescue Diver Course - I can't recommend it based on my recent experience

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Yes agree about the 15 emergencies in 50 mins seems a lot and had me wondering as well..? Well he described it as 'hell' and a 'hazing' and that he was stressed the whole course, and from what I gather he didn't even have any emergency situations on the second day. I would think an instructor or course director would want students alert and on their toes- but not stressed when they are demonstrating something.

I can agree with all of that, except that I think an instructor would want the student to be at least a little stressed, and if they are not then throw something else at them until they are. Perhaps all of the incidents came as a result of the OP doing so well? and perhaps the easier day 2 was a result of doing so well on day 1?

Based on this course summary, I think there are divers that would want to take this course, and those that would avoid it. Personally, I would rather dive with the former.
 
Well, obviously many of you disagree with me. Just makes me so glad we specifically researched our rescue instructor prior to committing to the course and ended up with a highly intelligent and mature individual who focused on the information and repetition of the skills under controlled conditions, emphasizing comprehension and execution, and we successfully avoided some neanderthal who's personally so board with teaching that they need to turn the training into a circus for their own entertainment.

I'd still like for anyone to point out where PADI directs you to put the student diver under direct stress in the simulated rescues and further where PADI specifically cites the benefits of the student and wants you to do this.

Here is the link again: ftp://207.215.212.62/stuff/PADI/DIM/Guides/Rescue.pdf

Untill you find it, I'll just say the evidence of the failure of this methodology to instructing is in the OP's very post starting this thread.

Mike can I ask you a simple question. Have you ever been in an actual rescue situation as a rescuer,first on scene in any form of ems-even a simple first aider?
doesn't need to be dive specific just a rescue situation.
 
It doesn't matter, PADI doesn't say stress is a part of emergencies. Thus it doesn't exist.
 
It's one thing to practice in a simulated real life scenario after you've been given the proper skills to work through it previously, and another to use the simulation as the way to teach the skills.

I admit that I don't know anything about a rescue course -- never taken one --- but as someone who is interested in taking it, this thread has clued me in to the fact that some instructors would be the military-type that Mike describes. I would never take a course from those folks. I would take a course from someone who teaches me the skills (including practice) and THEN further tasks me with the stress of unexpected events -- after I had mastered (to a degree) the skills.

- Bill
 
The problem is when you think you have mastered those skills you get hit with a real emergency and that mastery goes out the window. At least for those who are not practicing them regularly. And then you do the best you can and hope for a good outcome. It is never guaranteed no matter how well you do what you learned. And quite likely it will be nothing like the pool practice and OW evaluations of your level of skill.

After which you second guess, perhaps feel guilty (even if the outcome is positive) because you will always wonder if you could have been just a little bit better, faster, more efficient. No matter what anyone says. Every rescue I have been involved in, every near miss, stays in the back of your head every time you go into the water with another person. And every time once you've been through a good rescue course you know that in a split second the life of everyone in the water can suddenly be in the balance. And that in order to reduce that risk, because you cannot eliminate it, you have to be proactive and head off issues before they happen.

Even the best rescue course cannot teach you every skill for every situation. That's why stuff is thrown at students quickly, without warning, and sometimes to the degree of being outrageous. And that is to instill confidence. If you can handle a simulated semi panicked diver who has lost their mask and comes up to you trying to mug you for your reg, a real one who is not panicked is a piece of cake.

It is not military training or hazing. Sometimes I wish we could do that in a rescue class to show you what it's actually like to have your mask ripped off and reg ripped out by a panicking diver in a controlled situation. But we can't. The most we can do is make the sims come fast and frequently. I include some type of rescue skill in every class I teach.

The last wreck class I did I built a spider web in a helicopter and had the student swim thru it slowly to illustrate that entanglements happen so fast and suddenly that you may not even feel them until it's too late. After the lesson and we were gathering up the lines he cut and tied up out of the way he turned his back to me and I immediately wrapped myself and my gear in about 30 feet of lines running every which way. Just to see how he would react. He did admirably as I was "thrashing in semi panic". He got my attention and calmed me down. Then he cautiously moved around me, careful to stay just out of my reach and got me "free". He did what he was supposed to do in a situation that he had not been warned might happen. But I have been in the water with him before and this was dive five of the course.

But now he and I both know that he can react to a situation calmly, not endanger himself, and render assistance when something happens out of the blue. Was he stressed? Hell yeah. But he reacted to that stress by using what he had learned previously and applied it to a situation that I guarantee was not in the rescue class he took. Or anything like it. He said so.

So before anyone discounts a tough, ass kicking, exhausting mentally, physically, and emotionally draining class, think about what it is preparing you to do. Which is tougher? A bunch of simulations or a person whose life is literally in your hands for real?
 
I admit that I don't know anything about a rescue course -- never taken one --- but as someone who is interested in taking it, this thread has clued me in to the fact that some instructors would be the military-type that Mike describes. I would never take a course from those folks. I would take a course from someone who teaches me the skills (including practice) and THEN further tasks me with the stress of unexpected events -- after I had mastered (to a degree) the skills.

- Bill

I think the title of the OP is unfortunate, but I really don't want to comment on the OP's experience anymore as frankly I don't know him or how his course was really conducted. Personally I would have liked mine to have been more challenging but I still got a lot out of it. It makes you more aware of yourself and others when diving and provides a few skills to help you cope better if a real emergency occurs. If your looking for more confidence in the water I do think it would help with that as well.
 
I would say if the OP was going to continue on to divemaster, it is a damn good example of stuff that will come up in the next course.

It sounds like it was a little rough. I would have maybe thown in a debriefing if I were that demanding of my students during a course. Miscommunication, maybe?
 
That makes sense, Jim, but can't you make sure you teach the skills first? Then throw in the unexpected situations?

That's what I do -- but of course I only teach physics. And yes, they need a lot of training on problems they did not know to expect.

- Bill



The problem is when you think you have mastered those skills you get hit with a real emergency and that mastery goes out the window. At least for those who are not practicing them regularly. And then you do the best you can and hope for a good outcome. It is never guaranteed no matter how well you do what you learned. And quite likely it will be nothing like the pool practice and OW evaluations of your level of skill.

After which you second guess, perhaps feel guilty (even if the outcome is positive) because you will always wonder if you could have been just a little bit better, faster, more efficient. No matter what anyone says. Every rescue I have been involved in, every near miss, stays in the back of your head every time you go into the water with another person. And every time once you've been through a good rescue course you know that in a split second the life of everyone in the water can suddenly be in the balance. And that in order to reduce that risk, because you cannot eliminate it, you have to be proactive and head off issues before they happen.

Even the best rescue course cannot teach you every skill for every situation. That's why stuff is thrown at students quickly, without warning, and sometimes to the degree of being outrageous. And that is to instill confidence. If you can handle a simulated semi panicked diver who has lost their mask and comes up to you trying to mug you for your reg, a real one who is not panicked is a piece of cake.

It is not military training or hazing. Sometimes I wish we could do that in a rescue class to show you what it's actually like to have your mask ripped off and reg ripped out by a panicking diver in a controlled situation. But we can't. The most we can do is make the sims come fast and frequently. I include some type of rescue skill in every class I teach.

The last wreck class I did I built a spider web in a helicopter and had the student swim thru it slowly to illustrate that entanglements happen so fast and suddenly that you may not even feel them until it's too late. After the lesson and we were gathering up the lines he cut and tied up out of the way he turned his back to me and I immediately wrapped myself and my gear in about 30 feet of lines running every which way. Just to see how he would react. He did admirably as I was "thrashing in semi panic". He got my attention and calmed me down. Then he cautiously moved around me, careful to stay just out of my reach and got me "free". He did what he was supposed to do in a situation that he had not been warned might happen. But I have been in the water with him before and this was dive five of the course.

But now he and I both know that he can react to a situation calmly, not endanger himself, and render assistance when something happens out of the blue. Was he stressed? Hell yeah. But he reacted to that stress by using what he had learned previously and applied it to a situation that I guarantee was not in the rescue class he took. Or anything like it. He said so.

So before anyone discounts a tough, ass kicking, exhausting mentally, physically, and emotionally draining class, think about what it is preparing you to do. Which is tougher? A bunch of simulations or a person whose life is literally in your hands for real?
 
That makes sense, Jim, but can't you make sure you teach the skills first? Then throw in the unexpected situations?

That's what I do -- but of course I only teach physics. And yes, they need a lot of training on problems they did not know to expect.

- Bill






bill..



The skills should have been thought in the confined water portion which he had done before... Just as skills are thought in confined water for OW and then demonstrated in open water..



I see no issue with starting the demonstration portion first dive..








Sent from my Nokia Lumia 920
 
Just a couple concerns / questions. 1) My class, as well as several others, took place over several days. Are there so many situations that the Instr. has to teach and see return performance that it it is just too much to cram into a 2 day class OW class? 2) Would the OP care to share the Inst. / Dive Shop if available so we can gain their side of the situation? 3) Are there any instructors that never ask questions such as total dives, comfort in the water, past BLS / ACLS training etc. as the OP stated that the instructor never knew or asked? (Very strange to me) I know that you have to be certified CPR and First Aid within the last two years.
 
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