Rescue Diver Course - I can't recommend it based on my recent experience

[phoenix31tt]

Dale... you have no idea if this is SOP for that shop... it has been said.. and proven in my course.. that an instructor can tell a persons confidence and in some case their potential ability before even entering the water... just by the way they approach things on the boat/shore etc...

this is one scenario... in which the student clearly thought he had enough experience and know-how to easily handle the course... that sentiment could've easily been conveyed to the instructor during gear up/pre dive whatever.. and the instructor structured the course accordingly... who knows... we dont even know who the shop is...

 

[toddthecat]

Well, if that were true how would a middle aged sedentary person with limited water experience who is stepping outside their comfort zone by diving do? Do you think this describes a large segment of divers and if so is overly stressing them in rescue any benefit? Are we challenging their highly honed skill sets?

I would say that two dozen dives doesn't come close to being a "highly honed skill set". If he didn't want to do rescue then he shouldn't have done it. He wanted a smooth ride and to purchase a certification. He ended up getting an experience that stressed him. Only a fool would say that a real rescue scenario wouldn't cause stress. Then again, most anyone saying that have never been involved in something like that. But wait!!! He comes from a military family so that discipline should have been passed down through blood right?

Oh. One more question you had that I need to answer:
"What does the whole "we're gonna surprise you with a scenario" thing teach anyways - that life is full of surprises?"

Yes. Life IS full of surprises. Welcome.

 

[TONY CHANEY]

You say my post about what Mike said was sarcasm.

And to think that Dale was talking about me TC?

 

[DaleC]

It Was Todd. And I didn't say it was good he got the experience so he wouldn't be a crappy pro. What I said was, people who are taught by crappy pros turn out to be crappy pros (unless they recognize what was crap).

If you think you are giving adults good value for money spent, or excelling in skills training, by wasting time teaching them life is full of surprises what can I say. I would think most people know this and are taking a rescue course to do something about it. They want the solution. The solution is the re-enforcement of skills. Continued stress at that level is a distraction from that goal.

As for having a personal axe to grind - not really. My experience in training has been a mixed bag. I have had some very good instructors and some really horrible ones. I applaud the good and criticize the bad.

I don't know the OP's situation first hand and rarely speak to things in that regard. I am talking in general terms about overloaded stress situations for students who are still coping to attain basic skills. It's wrong, it's poor teaching... what else can I say.

That's not to say I'm against stress training all together. At certain points it can be very useful to illustrate just how well skills have been internalized. Here are the four stages of competence. Where do you think stress testing should be applied (I say a little at 1. to motivate and the rest at 4. to test. What is accomplished by applying it at 2. 3.):

1. Unconscious incompetence The individual does not understand or know how to do something and does not necessarily recognize the deficit.^]
2. Conscious incompetence Though the individual does not understand or know how to do something, he or she does recognize the deficit, as well as the value of a new skill in addressing the deficit.
3. Conscious competence The individual understands or knows how to do something. However, demonstrating the skill or knowledge requires concentration. It may be broken down into steps, and there is heavy conscious involvement in executing the new skill.^[3]
4. Unconscious competence

Ps. Was gone for a nice solo dive. I like diving and would probably like most of you guys too Arguing on the internet just helps us test our ideas. I have a pretty firm opinion about this form of teaching. Others may differ. I put forth my reasoning - they put forth theirs. If it makes sense maybe we learn something.

 

[TONY CHANEY]

Cool reply Dale!

 

[divebunnie]

Wow.. if you read the requirements of the PADI rescue diver course... this is nothing like it! I am not one to simply tick boxes and do the minimum requirements, but there are limits, and above all else, the priority is safety, and the fact that you should actually be learning something, not just struggling to get through the day.

I realise that many people here seem to appreciate that you had so many scenarios flung at you, however there was no assessment by the new instructor to see that your skills had in fact been taught properly in the pool and were up to the job. On any PADI course, the receiving instructor is expected to make some kind of skills assessment to ensure that you have indeed been taught thoroughly.

You are right in thinking that yes, the first day should have been a quick review or refresher to go over the skills you learned, a little practice and refining along with any further tips that this instructor felt might have been helpful. This way they would then know what level of competence they could expect from you.

The scenarios are not meant to put you or anyone else's life in danger, so pulling out your reg (especially before knowing how comfortable you are underwater) and trying to drown you on the surface are not part of the course.

This said, I do try to ensure that when I teach the scenario day, the student is well and truly kept on their toes (but of course they will have already practiced all the skills with me on the previous day). I ensure that the pace is kept lively and at a level to keep the student under pressure without completely overwhelming them.

I also encourage them to ask for assistance. I always explain that no one is going to jump in and do the rescuing for you (yes there was a student once who thought she could delegate this... not my student, but she was swiftly told otherwise), but when handling an unconscious diver, if there are people who can help haul the diver back on board, then they need to be asked for help... as you would in any real situation. The course is not just about macho launching in and going it alone, it is also about how to manage the scene and potential assistants. In a real situation, people actually prefer to be included in a rescue rather than being left feeling helpless as they watch someone else struggling to save a life. Give someone something to do that will help, and they will be less traumatised by the event.

Such a shame that you feel that your course was not something you recommend. Most people find it one of the most rewarding, helpful and fun courses they have done. Let's hope you draw on your positive experiences in the pool and from the theory that you learned. Your final instructor is very lucky that you were taught well enough to actually deal with everything that was thrown at you. This could have turned out a very different story indeed. It is very easy for a rescue course to turn into a real rescue if scenarios are not properly managed.

Good luck with your future diving wherever it may take you. And please do not let this experience put you off.

 

[ttew]

WOW!
You lucky guy, my rescue was not so full of emergencies, but nonetheless, it was really intense and in the winter, with uite old water.
It was really stressy, but also the part of my training I enjoyed most.

I am an instructor now.
The rescue was probably the part that clicked my decision to became a professional.

I just recently got my PADI Rescue Diver certification. I took the course because I felt that if I was participating in an activity like SCUBA, I felt it was my responsibility to get all the training to be able to help myself and others. I knew I had an upcoming holiday in Phuket, Thailand, but I wanted to make sure I approached the course seriously and had enough time to really learn. So I opted to do all the initial coursework and confined water work at my own pace where I live in Shanghai, and just do the open water part on referral on holiday. I did this because I didn't do that when I did my open water and I found that it was very rushed in holiday resort places and they didn't take it so seriously.

For the study part, I thought it was well worth it. And I enjoyed the training I did in Shanghai. I really felt I could learn a lot from the course and I was excited for the open water training and rescue scenarios. I was under the impression that it would be a 2 day open water course, where the first day would be training and demonstrating all the rescue skills I had practiced in a pool so the instructore could be sure I could also do them well enough in open water. And I understood that day 2 would be just me diving on a boat with other divers and at some random times throughout the day there would be some pretend rescue scenarios and I would need to react to them.

However, this is not how it happened. For the open water portion, most of the scenarios were done all day the first day when I thought I was supposed to be training. From the moment I entered the boat on Day 1 I was told, "You are the rescue diver on the boat today. No one else will respond to any emergencies. It's all on you. Be prepared." That was my introduction and the first thing I had in working with this new instructor since I was doing the open water portion on referral.

That first day, there were 2 different diver overboard emergencies - one who really did his best to drown me since he had refused to accept the line/buoy I threw to him from the boat. And several times in each dive which I was told I could just relax and dive for a while before we did some training, my instructor suddenly had her regulator out and was "out of air" and rushing for mine. This was very unexpected as I thought I was just supposed to demonstrate skills the first day and the second day would be all the mock emergency scenarios.

Finally on the 3rd dive the first day I was told I was the divemaster for a group of new students (3 instructors pretending) and they all had emergencies. One man in particular had about 15 emergencies in the 50 minute dive including losing a fin, 2 emergency assents, 1 emergency descent, going the wrong way from the group as fast as he could in low viz (4m) multiple times, out of air multiple times, randomly coming up to me and pulling my regulator out. I felt that it was a bit overdone and really made the course stressful and not in the least bit enjoyable or rewarding.

On Day 2 there were no rescue scenarious but because of how they acted on Day 1, I was expecting them and constantly watching everyone, I didn't want to take off my wetsuit because on day 1 they had waited each time I took of my gear to have an emergency... so I was stressed all day waiting for something to happen which never did. But the asked me to again demonstrate an unconscious diver at the surface (I had already done this a few times on day 1) and of course this time they picked a 300 lb man. No issues with that but the current was sooooo strong that it was impossible to tow him to the boat. In fact it would have been impossible to swim on my own. I was then criticized for accepting the tow line that was thrown to me when I called for help [though I feel it was the right thing to do].

All in all I feel that there should be some challenge of course, but I would preferred more focus on training the first day as the course is described and then maybe only a few rescue scenarios the second day which are more reasonable. At a certain point when the emergencies are coming in constantly the rescue diver is unrealistically on guard and in addition to the stress being high the whole day and diminishing any potential enjoyment from the course, it also is not mimicking the sudden onsent of an emergency situation in real life.

I am sure everyone's experience is very different depending on which dive shop and which instructor they have, but from my personal experience I would never recommend this course to anyone who is not trying to become an instructor. The course I took was hell. It was not enjoyable. It was stressful beyond what it needed to be and seemed to have more of a focus on "hazing" me rather than training me. If that's the case, really the only people that need to be hazed up through the ranks are future instructors.

I am glad its over... I can't really be objective yet about whether or not / how much if may have benefited me... but maybe the next time I dive, I may feel something different and maybe with time I may realize some value from it. I hope others have a better experience/feeling from their rescue course than I did.

 

[Mike]

I'm afraid I am going to have to side on the belief that basic rescue training (which is what these courses are) should not involve undue stress. Perhaps one scenario, to illustrate its effects, but that's all. You are taking a diver with 0 skills and trying to teach them the very basics - the ABC's. Adding stress and harassment just undermines the process and decreases the ability to retain what is taught.

Is an emergency stressful? Yes. How do you reduce stress? By feeling competent in your skills. But if you stress a student out before they gain the skills they only feel less competent and more stressed.

At the basic rescuer level one should be taught a few simple techniques and strategies and then be drilled with them repeatedly. Not given a buffet to sample poorly. You may feel you've been exposed to more, but have actually digested less.

Undue stress at the beginning, defeats education. It's application should come at an advanced level when basic competency has been achieved. At that point, the stress serves to test the divers capacity to employ what they know in a realistic setting. But if you don't have competency, what are you demonstrating?

A simulated stress event may be used to illustrate to the diver "what they don't know" so as to stimulate a desire to learn, but after that, one should revert to skills training to provide those very skills they have seen they lack.

I think harassment training at this level generally produces two kinds of products:

Those who have low confidence because they could not cope with stress (and did not acquire skills). They may stop diving sooner because they feel it is too dangerous.

Those who have a false sense of high confidence because they coped with the stress (but did not acquire skills). Unfortunately, it becomes an ego stroke.

An initial rescue course should give one a basic understanding of a small handful of basic skills and the ability to improve on these with self study, along with the opportunity to test these in simulated stress settings when core competency is attained.

A better training model would be for a dive center/instructor to run basic rescue courses and every one, two or three months, offer a simulated rescue day workshop; in which previous students can come out and apply their skills. New students, old, refreshers - it would provide a win/win opportunity by keeping post course students involved in developing skills and allowing yet another income source to the instructor. Cyclic training as opposed to linear.

In order to create a positive stress environment the participants need one thing:
Competence
If you don't have that you create a negative stress experience.
Show me the data that suggests stressing to failure embeds correct skills in a student because I know of no such training model that suggests such.

Take a Grade 1 speller and throw them into a Grade 2 spelling bee and you accomplish nothing more than failure. Saying it's a tough world out there and the student will face those sorts of challenges in the future is moronic, and not surprisingly, professional educators don't do it. They spend time in the classroom, developing basic competency. When they feel the students have that, they create a challenge (bee) appropriate to the grade.

But, nothing surprises me in the vast ghetto of the unregulated dive industry; where people just make it up as they go, no one is accountable, and being an instructor is as much about stroking ones own ego as creating safe competent divers. After all, if the student fails it must be their fault .. right. Not everyone is meant to be a diver (both a truth and the perfect cop-out).

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I'm fairly new, and I have found that some instructions just want to give me an easy pass to get my continued business. I want to be challenged, and would love to have so much thrown at me, so that I can learn. Since this isn't a real world situation, one has time to reflect afterwards and have discussions with the instructors.

 

[azhar]

wow wow and wow!!! what a class you had....you are one lucky guy! It's a Rescue Diver course and it's should be stressful and tiring so you can "operate" in real life scenario. To bad it's not what you expected but it was one hell of a class!