Required night dive certification

[Storker]

I am saying that OW gives no limited vis diving and that AOW gives PERHAPS only one dive. NEITHER MAKES THEM QUALIFIED TO DO A NIGHT DIVE IN STRANGE WATERS.

If I remember my AOWD manual correctly, it points out that it perhaps isn't the best of ideas to jump in the water at night at a site you haven't researched and preferably also dived during daytime. I happen to agree.

What in a "proper" night dive class - real or imagined - prepares a diver to jump into unknown waters while it's dark?

 

[NAM001]

If I remember my AOWD manual correctly, it points out that it perhaps isn't the best of ideas to jump in the water at night at a site you haven't researched and preferably also dived during daytime. I happen to agree.

What in a "proper" night dive class - real or imagined - prepares a diver to jump into unknown waters while it's dark?

I agree I have never dove a night dive where I did not dive during the day. I have done a night dive and had a current that was not there during the day. Those water condition changes are what I refer to when i say strange or unfamiliar waters. Boats usually know the waters normal conditions. New divers probably have no clue t on how to check for a current, especially when they are site seeing.

 

[dmaziuk]

Im not saying that at all.

I know you're not saying it. But that's where it ends up, between devalued certs and no feasible alternative way to assess a customer's skill level that's good enough for paperwork.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

What in a "proper" night dive class - real or imagined - prepares a diver to jump into unknown waters while it's dark?

Two items I would like to point out in the thread.

First is we seem to be mixing experienced OW divers with brand new out of the box OW divers. Someone that is actively diving and has been for 5 years or more with 40 to 60 dives a year. If they are diving multiple locations with varying conditions in cold water, low viz, shore dive, boat dive, and current - I would venture to say they are no longer OW. But their card says OW and that is what a charter boat will say and so they are limited.

Second is diving is all about risk management - assessing and continually evaluating water conditions and personal stress levels. If you are comfortable and you have assessed the risk - then by all means take a night dive in a location where you have not dove before. I have and I have learned valuable lessons - but you need to be aware of your actions, surroundings and anxiety level. If things don't feel right - call the dive. We are ultimately responsible for ourselves and someone that has been diving actively and consistently knows this - there is no difference between a day dive and a night dive - except those fish and critters that are more prevalent at night.

I am not saying they get on a boat where an AOW card is required(because you can not) - I am saying they can gain experience without gaining a card..
Night diving is not the issue - having a sound plan and following the plan is the issue day or night. IMHO

 

[BlueTrin]

For info, I’ll be doing the night dive as an Adventure Dive. If I do a second adventure night dive with SSI I can choose to pay to finish the certification.

 

[Bob DBF]

NEITHER MAKES THEM QUALIFIED TO DO A NIGHT DIVE IN STRANGE WATERS

But from that training the diver should be able to make an informed decision on whether making the particular dive advisable, I believe that is what training is for. I don't do a lot of night dives, but I prefer them to the zero viz dives in the lake.

And yet comments have been made as to whether this operators rule is a money grab to sell a course or not.

I was one, however I said it would depend on the dive op's approach to the rule. If they required me to get the card it would be one thing, however later in the thread the OP said he told the dive op that he had no experience at night. The op then only required an adventure dive, which I don't see as unreasonable, and offered it be the first dive of the cert if he wanted the cert. All things considered, I believe the dive op was looking out for the divers best interest, and probably wouldn't have required a card, only experience.


Bob

 

[BlueTrin]

Have you not done anything slightly deep in the Channel on a cloudy day? Or Guildy/Wraysbury late Sunday afternoon on a busy weekend?

I remember one particular comic day off Brighton where the main risk was banging your head on the reef - the bottom is flat but at either 12m or 17m mostly with a small wall. It appeared to me that fish thought it was night time and were having a sleep.

The first time I went diving outside the UK was in Malta. The first time I looked above and could see the surface from 12-14m was actually a bit scary as I was used to low vis.

In the few UK dives I did at sea after my OW you could not see the surface clearly once you go down a few meters.

At Wraysbury, the local training lake for London, the instructors joke that students won’t be able to cheat for the navigation skills: once a few divers kick the silt the vis will be reduced to 1-2m.

I remember during my navigation AOW Dive, waiting on the platform for the other people to finish navigation. I could see fins randomly passing by and missing the platform by 2 meters on their way back, they could not see us and passed us ... took forever to finish as some people had been unlucky and had to retry a third time.

Is that a hard rule? I do not know if the dive count in your profile is up to date. My guess is that it may be due to not having that many dives. Was your experience part of the discussion?

It is up to date and I am a newbie I told them that I have never done a night dive so that they could brief me.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

It is up to date and I am a newbie I told them that I have never done a night dive so that they could brief me.

Then I don't think they are being unreasonable. They have no way to gauge the quality of your training. And they have no idea if you will panic diving at night, as some people are afraid of diving in the dark (I've always loved it). A night diving specialty is a little weak in terms of performance requirements. It is more of hand holding with "see, you can do this". I think a package of night with navigation in poor visibility (so May and June are ideal in my area with the algae blooms) with more challenging navigation is a bit more valuable, but that's just me. Other instructors may respond castigating me for devaluing some courses. I'm just a believer in fewer, more meaningful courses. That may not work for you or someone else. But some people it does.

 

[Alan Browne]

A dive shop requires me to have a night dive certification for night dives.

Is that pretty standard or are they just either covering themselves or using it for extra funds ?

As others say it may be location difficulty or an abundance of caution, possibly revenue building.

I did my first night dive before my final OW qualifying dive (and did not count it for the OW). It was a cliff edge dive into pretty shallow (20') water, however. The ladder had been blown off in a storm so we had to put on our gear in the water at night after throwing it off the edge (8 foot drop). Called it training. Getting out was ... special: swam down the shore a bit and then let the waves lift us up onto the rocks... feral dogs barking and growling at us...

Also located the ladder so it could be recovered.