Required night dive certification

[Bob DBF]

Of course I am in favor of having AOW cards to do 100 ft dives also..

Trolling for my rant are ya? AOW after 47 years of diving, some of which is now known as tech, was not particularly enlightening but required. Getting to have less shops listen to reason nowadays.



Bob

 

[NAM001]

Trolling for my rant are ya? AOW after 47 years of diving, some of which is now known as tech, was not particularly enlightening but required. Getting to have less shops listen to reason nowadays.



Bob

No bob you were doing hull checks on the ark before padi was invented. your training then was far more than what they have today My concerns are more for those that get absolute min ow training and have been no where to speek of such as snowbirds tat dive once or twice a year.

 

[tursiops]

your training then was far more than what they have today

You need to say this more clearly if you insist on keeping on saying it. The training now is much more extensive -- and safer -- than what we had way back when....but now it is broken up into bite-size pieces with no necessity to do all of it, just the parts that fit the kind of diving you intend to do. Yes, if you take only the initial piece, like OW, you have less training that we got back then....but it also only takes a few days instead of the several months our training took.

So the comparison of our training to today's training needs to include time and money spent on the training, and the extent to which the training is matched to the diving desires.

If someone today wants to do a night dive, I do think they ought to get some training in it. The OW class does not and cannot cover everything. Same with going deeper than 60 ft, or using a lift bag, or navigating a complex course....more training is needed to do it effectively and safely, and there is no problem with that UNLESS someone thinks their OW class is all they need in order to do anything they want. Then there is a problem...

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

A dive shop requires me to have a night dive certification for night dives.

Is that pretty standard or are they just either covering themselves or using it for extra funds ?

Is that a hard rule? I do not know if the dive count in your profile is up to date. My guess is that it may be due to not having that many dives. Was your experience part of the discussion?

 

[tursiops]

Is that a hard rule? I do not know if the dive count in your profile is up to date. My guess is that it may be due to not having that many dives. Was your experience part of the discussion?

Look at Post #8 for more info.
Oh, never mind, I think you have me on ignore. Your bad.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

more training is needed to do it effectively and safely, and there is no problem with that UNLESS someone thinks their OW class is all they need in order to do anything they want. Then there is a problem...

So - my knee jerk reaction was this is so wrong...

But I will yeild to the - "if an OW diver believes they need instruction on night dives" - I think that is perfectly fine and makes. If an OW diver can not find a buddy to show them the ropes - by all means get instruction so you are comfortable in the water. This is what diving should be all about - being comfortable in the water.
If you are comfortable with an instructor or equally with a buddy / mentor - have at it as well... Not everyone is comfortable in the water at the same level coming out of OW classes. Find someone to help or get some training... But I dont believe a card carrying Night Dive Certification should be required for someone to night dive.

 

[Storker]

many divers get their first night dive as part of an AOW course.

Like me. Up here, the night dive is one of the "compulsory" dives in AOWD class. It was perhaps the most valuable of my AOW dives. Not that that says a lot, though...

That said, I'm one of those who just love night diving. On a night dive, I'm weightless in a vast nothingness and the universe contracts to encompass only what's in my light's beam plus the light from my buddy out there on the side. It's pure Zen. Plus, there are a lot more critters coming out and being visible after dark. It's one of my two favorite types of dives, the other being wall dives with no visible bottom beneath me.

 

[tursiops]

But I dont believe a card carrying Night Dive Certification should be required for someone to night dive.

Nor do I. But instruction can come in many forms, and at many prices. It is the DIY diver that needs to be whacked over the head.

"if an OW diver believes they need instruction on night dives"

This is the main problem: how does the OW diver learn that they need some instruction? How many night dives have you been on where the newbie has useless depth control, is constantly shining his light in people's eyes, and holds high light right next to his compass or computer, thus destroying his night vision and deviating his compass? From the perspective of the new OW diver, it was a great dive. But he needs help, and that is what a good buddy or a good instructor can do. Unfortunately, I've seen more good instructors than I have good buddies, as far as helping a newbie; most can't be bothered.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

How many night dives have you been on where the newbie has useless depth control, is constantly shining his light in people's eyes, and holds high light right next to his compass or computer, thus destroying his night vision and deviating his compass?

After diving in a fresh water reservoir and noting the newly stamped OW buoyancy - I took him for his first ocean shore dive and first night dive in the same dive. I made the determination that he was ready - and he nailed it. But not before I knew we were compatible, dove a few times to check things out and I decided I cared enough to help him out.
If a diver is a fool - it is one and done... I don't have time or patience to work on solving world hunger...
I like to dive and anyone is welcome once in a benign environment where you can not get hurt - after that I determine if I am going to spend time with you. If it does not work you can always find an instructor or not....

 

[NAM001]

You need to say this more clearly if you insist on keeping on saying it. The training now is much more extensive -- and safer -- than what we had way back when....but now it is broken up into bite-size pieces with no necessity to do all of it, just the parts that fit the kind of diving you intend to do. Yes, if you take only the initial piece, like OW, you have less training that we got back then....but it also only takes a few days instead of the several months our training took.

So the comparison of our training to today's training needs to include time and money spent on the training, and the extent to which the training is matched to the diving desires.

If someone today wants to do a night dive, I do think they ought to get some training in it. The OW class does not and cannot cover everything. Same with going deeper than 60 ft, or using a lift bag, or navigating a complex course....more training is needed to do it effectively and safely, and there is no problem with that UNLESS someone thinks their OW class is all they need in order to do anything they want. Then there is a problem...

Your last sentence is the exact problem I speek of. The fact that the training is broke into pieces is also what I speek of. Too many want to take a single class , go no further and be non stoppable. Todays minimal training does not come near what it was long ago. some are fortunate to have instructors that realize that and beef up the class form the minimum required to be taught. Or at least teach to handle the local waters. Most america does not have much for waters that resemble any coast diving spot. All the reasons you give on how training is better are the exact reasons some one with only an OW from dirt water gulch kansas should not do such dives. Too much of your explaination is business based and not learning based. some one does not want to spend 80 hours taking a course then you cut it back to 24 to get students. those actions are not training survival needs they are business survival needs. Yes once they are out of OW for some time and do the dives they learn things the hard way and then can do those dives. but training should not be there to prepare you to learn the hard way. The 60 foot limit topic is the safety catch for agencies. you just cant get hurt staying above 60 ft yet you are hard pressed to find those that will not insist that the OW cert good to 130. Why is that????? Because they are using teh term OW as it was when it was a full coverage class which it is not now.