Suggestion Require Two-factor authentication for Classified privileges

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Brett Hatch

Brett Hatch

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Edit August 22 2024: We've decided not to require 2FA, but have made a few changes. See post #101 in this thread for a summary. Thanks everybody who provided their input on this!


Please upvote or downvote
If you are for this 2FA idea, please upvote this post, and if you are against it, please downvote. Upvote/downvote buttons are the triangles on the right side of this post. This will help us to gauge how the community feels about this idea.

Background
ScubaBoard has a perennial problem of scammers. They usually show up in the Classified sections, or send Private Messages (PMs) to users who have Classified threads up. Currently, ScubaBoard's Classifieds sections and Private Message privileges are granted once a SB account has been somewhat active in the community. But we do not require Two Factor Authentication (2FA) for these privileges.

What is the suggestion?
I propose that we start requiring 2FA before granting access to the Classified section, as well as Private Messages. The purpose of this is to help reduce the frequency and effectiveness of scams on ScubaBoard.

What is the problem?
There are a few common flavors of scammers:

- An existing account is hijacked by a scammer, and the scammer benefits from the account's good standing in the community.

This usually affects an account whose credentials are the same as some other website, and the credentials have been leaked. This type of scammer is harder to spot than the new account, because people really do come and go on ScubaBoard. Legitimately taking a break for a few years and then coming back to sell off some gear is a pretty common situation that's not a scam. Requiring 2FA for Classified and PM privileges would address most of this type of scam, since it would be much more difficult to hijack the SB account in the first place.

- A scammer makes a new account, reaches the threshold required for Classified and/or Private Message privileges, and then tries to scam people.

I don't think 2FA help much against this type of scam. It would put one more barrier up in front of potential scammers, which is always helpful in the same way that even a weak bike lock still helps prevent bike theft. But, scammers can do the steps to enable 2FA for their new scam account, and go on to attempt to scam people.

What is 2FA, how do I turn it on, and why it is helpful?
ScubaBoard already has two-factor authentication (2FA) built-in. It is currently optional, and you can turn it on in your security preferences. I highly recommend that all ScubaBoard users turn it on right away. I strongly recommend turning it on for other websites as well, especially sensitive ones like your email, your bank, your investments. It is one of the simplest, most effective security measures, because it means that even if your password is guessed or leaked, an attacker cannot use your password to sign into your account.

There are several types of 2FA. ScubaBoard supports email-based 2FA and app-based 2FA. App-based 2FA is more secure, and is most recommended. Email-based 2FA is less secure than app-based, but it is still much more secure than nothing. The reason email is less secure than an app is that if your email is compromised as well as your ScubaBoard account, then the 2FA offers no protection. This risk can be mitigated by enabling 2FA on your email as well, which of course I recommend, and do so myself.

Commentary
ScubaBoard members are generally suspicious of new accounts, and are great at reporting suspicious activity. A huge thank-you to those of you who report possible scammers! Please, please keep doing this, it is the main way mods notice scams! The Mod Squad is spread around the globe, so we see the reports pretty quickly, and once we look into an account, it is usually obvious to the mods that they are a scammer. Most of the time, we get word of the scammer and ban them before any scam takes place, but of course we can't guarantee this, and unfortunately the scammers are sometimes successful.

Other ideas I've seen
- Increasing the threshold for Classified and PM privileges. For example, we could require 100 posts
Pro: helps with the "new account" type of scammer
Con: doesn't do much for hijacked accounts
Con: inhibits legitimate users who just don't have that many posts yet

- Make it more difficult, or impossible, to use VPNs to use ScubaBoard. A VPN conceals the user's IP address
Pro: scammers use VPNs to conceal their identity, so it would help prevent some scammers entirely
Pro: if we ban the IP address of a known scammer, it would make it more difficult for the same scammer to use a new IP address and a new account to try another scam
Con: some legitimate users use VPNs for reasons besides scams; such users would need to disable their VPN while using ScubaBoard

- Require a text message (SMS) to verify the account. This suggestion is a bit like 2FA, but uses text messages instead of an app or email
Pro: Scammers would need a phone number in order to attempt a scam. Acquiring a phone number is a hurdle to get over, and often is not free
Con: Sending text messages costs money, and ScubaBoard would need to pay those costs. ScubaBoard also is not set up for this, and we would likely need to purchase more software and some cloud service send out the SMS messages

- Only allow ScubaBoard Supporters and Sponsors Classified / PM privileges
Pro: we'd put a financial barrier in front of scammers, so new accounts would need to pay money in order to attempt their scam.
Con: this would be very alienating to users who are not interested in (or not able to) become a ScubaBoard supporter
Con: this would not eliminate risk from hijacked accounts that are already ScubaBoard supports

Suggestions?
If you have any other ideas about how to address scammers on ScubaBoard, I would be happy to hear about them. You can post in this thread, or you can send me a PM. Thank you.
 
2fa would be required only for users wanting to use the marketplace section on scubaboard. It's probably been stated about 3-4 times in this thread already.
Sorry for the redundancy then. I didn't back-read through eight pages of replies.
 
actually i think all you had to do was read the very first post
Actually, PMs are lumped in with Classifieds in the first post as well as others. Don't care what you do with classifieds, but PMs are an important part of the rest of the message board and shouldn't be bundled in the same security solution as the monetary transactional portion. IMHO.
 
Actually, PMs are lumped in with Classifieds in the first post as well as others. Don't care what you do with classifieds, but PMs are an important part of the rest of the message board and shouldn't be bundled in the same security solution as the monetary transactional portion. IMHO.
why not? what is so hard about 2fa that ppl are getting hysterical over it
 
lol...you're the only one seemingly hysterical over it. Some of the rest of us don't care if you want to buy/sell stuff, just leave the rest of the message board including PMs out of it. The message board including PMs is about sharing ideas and experiences. Anything that adds extra hurdles to participation has a negative impact and should be avoided if possible. IMHO, YMMV. :)
 
I voted yes, unvoted, waited a week and came back and voted for this again. The main issue I see is that people are stubborn and don't understand 2FA is not excessive, it is the new minimum. Someone who chooses not to participate in classifieds could refuse to activate 2FA, have their account stolen by someone who then immediately turns on 2FA, and immediately posts a bunch of $100 Shearwaters for sale.
There needs to be more.
An additional requirement could be that not only does 2FA need to be active but it has to have been active for at least 60 days. Make the announcement that this requirement will go live in 90 days so everyone has time to qualify under the new requirements. It will give anyone with a stolen account time to figure it out and report it and it will stop scammers from quickly creating disposable accounts that are able to immediately buy and sell.
 
lol...you're the only one seemingly hysterical over it. Some of the rest of us don't care if you want to buy/sell stuff, just leave the rest of the message board including PMs out of it. The message board including PMs is about sharing ideas and experiences. Anything that adds extra hurdles to participation has a negative impact and should be avoided if possible. IMHO, YMMV. :)

i would like to see you point to the post where i came off sounding hysterical. unless of course you haven't read any of the posts which seems more likely
 
why not? what is so hard about 2fa that ppl are getting hysterical over it
I hate 2FA, but I grudgingly relented, just as i did decades ago when we started needing passwords to access computers. Time marches on. I’m a natural Luddite, but it seems inevitable that security comes with a burden.
 
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