Suggestion Require Two-factor authentication for Classified privileges

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Brett Hatch

Brett Hatch

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Edit August 22 2024: We've decided not to require 2FA, but have made a few changes. See post #101 in this thread for a summary. Thanks everybody who provided their input on this!


Please upvote or downvote
If you are for this 2FA idea, please upvote this post, and if you are against it, please downvote. Upvote/downvote buttons are the triangles on the right side of this post. This will help us to gauge how the community feels about this idea.

Background
ScubaBoard has a perennial problem of scammers. They usually show up in the Classified sections, or send Private Messages (PMs) to users who have Classified threads up. Currently, ScubaBoard's Classifieds sections and Private Message privileges are granted once a SB account has been somewhat active in the community. But we do not require Two Factor Authentication (2FA) for these privileges.

What is the suggestion?
I propose that we start requiring 2FA before granting access to the Classified section, as well as Private Messages. The purpose of this is to help reduce the frequency and effectiveness of scams on ScubaBoard.

What is the problem?
There are a few common flavors of scammers:

- An existing account is hijacked by a scammer, and the scammer benefits from the account's good standing in the community.

This usually affects an account whose credentials are the same as some other website, and the credentials have been leaked. This type of scammer is harder to spot than the new account, because people really do come and go on ScubaBoard. Legitimately taking a break for a few years and then coming back to sell off some gear is a pretty common situation that's not a scam. Requiring 2FA for Classified and PM privileges would address most of this type of scam, since it would be much more difficult to hijack the SB account in the first place.

- A scammer makes a new account, reaches the threshold required for Classified and/or Private Message privileges, and then tries to scam people.

I don't think 2FA help much against this type of scam. It would put one more barrier up in front of potential scammers, which is always helpful in the same way that even a weak bike lock still helps prevent bike theft. But, scammers can do the steps to enable 2FA for their new scam account, and go on to attempt to scam people.

What is 2FA, how do I turn it on, and why it is helpful?
ScubaBoard already has two-factor authentication (2FA) built-in. It is currently optional, and you can turn it on in your security preferences. I highly recommend that all ScubaBoard users turn it on right away. I strongly recommend turning it on for other websites as well, especially sensitive ones like your email, your bank, your investments. It is one of the simplest, most effective security measures, because it means that even if your password is guessed or leaked, an attacker cannot use your password to sign into your account.

There are several types of 2FA. ScubaBoard supports email-based 2FA and app-based 2FA. App-based 2FA is more secure, and is most recommended. Email-based 2FA is less secure than app-based, but it is still much more secure than nothing. The reason email is less secure than an app is that if your email is compromised as well as your ScubaBoard account, then the 2FA offers no protection. This risk can be mitigated by enabling 2FA on your email as well, which of course I recommend, and do so myself.

Commentary
ScubaBoard members are generally suspicious of new accounts, and are great at reporting suspicious activity. A huge thank-you to those of you who report possible scammers! Please, please keep doing this, it is the main way mods notice scams! The Mod Squad is spread around the globe, so we see the reports pretty quickly, and once we look into an account, it is usually obvious to the mods that they are a scammer. Most of the time, we get word of the scammer and ban them before any scam takes place, but of course we can't guarantee this, and unfortunately the scammers are sometimes successful.

Other ideas I've seen
- Increasing the threshold for Classified and PM privileges. For example, we could require 100 posts
Pro: helps with the "new account" type of scammer
Con: doesn't do much for hijacked accounts
Con: inhibits legitimate users who just don't have that many posts yet

- Make it more difficult, or impossible, to use VPNs to use ScubaBoard. A VPN conceals the user's IP address
Pro: scammers use VPNs to conceal their identity, so it would help prevent some scammers entirely
Pro: if we ban the IP address of a known scammer, it would make it more difficult for the same scammer to use a new IP address and a new account to try another scam
Con: some legitimate users use VPNs for reasons besides scams; such users would need to disable their VPN while using ScubaBoard

- Require a text message (SMS) to verify the account. This suggestion is a bit like 2FA, but uses text messages instead of an app or email
Pro: Scammers would need a phone number in order to attempt a scam. Acquiring a phone number is a hurdle to get over, and often is not free
Con: Sending text messages costs money, and ScubaBoard would need to pay those costs. ScubaBoard also is not set up for this, and we would likely need to purchase more software and some cloud service send out the SMS messages

- Only allow ScubaBoard Supporters and Sponsors Classified / PM privileges
Pro: we'd put a financial barrier in front of scammers, so new accounts would need to pay money in order to attempt their scam.
Con: this would be very alienating to users who are not interested in (or not able to) become a ScubaBoard supporter
Con: this would not eliminate risk from hijacked accounts that are already ScubaBoard supports

Suggestions?
If you have any other ideas about how to address scammers on ScubaBoard, I would be happy to hear about them. You can post in this thread, or you can send me a PM. Thank you.
 
I don't hate the idea for 2FA but having a day job in tech, its a lot to ask for and imposes a knowledge barrier especially for existing accounts.

Another form of verification would be a more human form but it would require more work from the moderators. If you want to post, have a private part of your profile, visible to moderators only:
First name
Last name
Ship from zip code
Valid photo ID (drivers license passport etc) with as much redacted personal information as you want, but exposing first/last/zip
Selfie that matches your ID


Another option is go through a service like ID.me

EDIT: GDPR - nvm
 
I don't hate the idea for 2FA but having a day job in tech, its a lot to ask for and imposes a knowledge barrier especially for existing accounts.

Another form of verification would be a more human form but it would require more work from the moderators. If you want to post, have a private part of your profile, visible to moderators only:
First name
Last name
Ship from zip code
Valid photo ID (drivers license passport etc) with as much redacted personal information as you want, but exposing first/last/zip
Selfie that matches your ID

Another option is go through a service like ID.me
we're working on it.
 
Was there a decision on this? I appear to no longer have privileges to post in the classified section? Do I need to verify my account?
 
Was there a decision on this? I appear to no longer have privileges to post in the classified section? Do I need to verify my account?
turn on 2FA and possibly increase your post count to 25 if it hasn't already been
 
Was there a decision on this? I appear to no longer have privileges to post in the classified section? Do I need to verify my account?
@ddunlop try now. Please report back.
 
Was there a decision on this? I appear to no longer have privileges to post in the classified section? Do I need to verify my account?
If you promise not to tell the scammers:
Screenshot 2024-08-13 at 20.50.45.png

Once checked, patience is required.

When you post in the marketplace, Scubaboard
  • accesses your webcam to verify your face-id
  • reads the history of your fingerprint scanner
  • connects to your mobile phone to secretly install the hidden scubaboard-gps-tracker-app
  • connects to Google and/or Apple to verify your identity
 
Not sure what changed, but it appears to be working as normal now.
 
Not sure what changed, but it appears to be working as normal now.
Thanks for the feedback.

I did a thing.
 
2FA is the new standard and does prevent a lot of issues (most go unnoticed) it does raise concerns though as you then have to decide what Idp's you support that you also trust (anyone can create multiple facebooks, Google, Microsoft accounts etc). If you decide to essentially be your idp you then have data protection issues and the levels of the forums security (and gdpr etc). It's a can of worms and a flawed solution for authorising a sale on a forum.

I am however not against 2FA in principle to prevent account hijacking assuming the above are handled as it would save admin time resolving authentication, hijacking and post management. Ultimately 2FA is intended as part of an authentication flow (auth0, openid connect etc) and not an authorization tool.
 
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