Request for Newbie Gear Check

[Jarrett]

My 10 year old daughter and I just finished our PADI OW certification and have been bitten hard by the dive bug. We are trying to finalize a big gear purchase for the both of us and would appreciate any advice the board members have to offer regarding this. Hopefully, we'll be diving locally in Texas in nothing colder than 50 degree at the lowest (hopefully warmer) and then the occasional trip to Cozumel or similar location. ScubaToys is looking to be our LDS of preference, although there are a couple of other nice shops locally as well. Here is the list of things we are closing in on:

Zeagle Brigade (both of us - modular design for growth)
Aeris Atmos AI (both - maybe an Atoms Hoseless Elite for me)
Regulators are up in the air (ScubaPro, Atomic, Zeagle)
Atomic SS1 octo/inflator for me
Zeagle Octo for her
Apollo Bio Fins or X-Fins
Whatever mask that fits

My thoughts for going that route revolve around the modularity of the Zeagle, the simplicity and less conservative nature of the Aeris, and getting a quality regulator that is soon to be decided hopefully I'm uncertain how long my daughter (or I) for that matter will be into Scuba, or exactly how frequently we could go. 15-20 dives a year seems feasible, but we are still looking into local spots and clubs. My thought is spend the money to get good equipment for safety and comfort which would hopefully prod us to do more diving. But I also think dropping $4k or so for a couple of newbie divers may be a bit excessive especially since we are land locked and surrounded by muddy lakes. Any bit of advice on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Jarrett]

Also, do you see any "must have" items in there that we are not taking into consideration?

 

[teknitroxdiver]

BC--That's fine. Since fitting for growth is a concern, have you thought about a backplate and wing setup? This is infinitely adjustable, and will fit her no matter how tall (or otherwise... ) she grows.

Computer--Personally I don't see the appeal of an air-integrated computer. I'd just as soon have a wrist mounted non-ai computer, and an analogue spg on a hose.

Regs--I suggest Apeks ATX50s for both of you, and skip the combo octo/inflator, and just have a second ATX50 each. For a reason why on that, do a search and you'll find more than you could hope to read.

Fins--I suggest you try a few in the pool. I tried some split fins, and was very glad I did as I HATED them. YMMV of course.

You didn't mention a wetsuit, I prefer to have my own because I know it fits how I like, and a I know that it hasn't been 'warmed' by a previous diver. A 3mm full is perfect for Carribbean and Gulf diving.

 

[Diver0001]

My 10 year old daughter and I just finished our PADI OW certification and have been bitten hard by the dive bug.

Congratulations!!

I think your gear ideas are pretty good on the whole. Much of the advice you'll get is (like mine) based on personal preference but I'll say it anyway....

First, I would suggest looking at Aqualung regulators (especially the Titan LX is good value for money) and for the same money you're spending on the Zeagle BCD you might want to look at the Diverite Transpac (travels lighter, more modularity). Also inflator/octo regs have their drawbacks. I dove with one for many years but I'm not sure I'd buy one now (my current setup doesn't have one).

Also, I think you might want to look at simple compters like the Suunto Gekko or something. The computer in your package is rediculously expensive (because of the unnecessary AI feature) and you're better off spending 1/3 of that money on a computer and putting the savings into good regs or additional training. For the time being it's not even a bad idea to plan your dives on the tables but eventually not having a computer will limit your options on dive boats. Computers can be rented.

You didn't say anything about suits so I assume you're putting this off for the moment. Obviously, suits can be rented.

Finally, despite not really being necessary for diving, I'd suggest buying snorkels. You have the rest of what you need for snorkelling and you'll find on dive vacations that you'll have the time to go snorkelling too, so why not be prepared.

R..

 

[Doc Intrepid]

I'm uncertain how long my daughter (or I) for that matter will be into Scuba, or exactly how frequently we could go. 15-20 dives a year seems feasible, but we are still looking into local spots and clubs. My thought is spend the money to get good equipment for safety and comfort which would hopefully prod us to do more diving. But I also think dropping $4k or so for a couple of newbie divers may be a bit excessive especially since we are land locked and surrounded by muddy lakes. Any bit of advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

Just a couple thoughts - all of which are merely my opinions...

* Congrats. Scuba is something you can do with your daughter for life. Make it a priority and you may have something valuable that will help you through the transitional years that lie ahead. Besides, it gives her the best thing of all: time spent with you.

* I agree with Diver0001 on regs.

* It ain't cheap. Generally speaking, there is very little wrong with used gear - especially if you buy if from some guy you know in the local club and you're reasonably sure he won't sell you something damaged. Local clubs are often excellent sources of used gear.

* Nobody has fun when they're cold, especially kids. Get good fitting wetsuits and hoods. Do a search, these are common topics.

* At this stage of your progression you need computers like you need a second nose. Learn to use tables real well. The time for computers will come, but it doesn't need to be now. Put the bucks you were going to drop on computers into quality wetsuits. (Refer back to "having fun" above.....) Your daughter should have a rock solid grasp of how to use tables, regardless of where she goes with her diving afterwards...

* This place is a goldmine of information. Don't be afraid to do searches and ask questions frequently.

Regards,

Doc

 

[theskull]

In addition to the excellent advice you're getting here, I will only add to not consider buying tanks. Since you have to pay to get them filled anyway and annual inspections, renting is a better deal until you're diving locally very often.

theskull

 

[Jarrett]

Thanks for the advice thus far. When speaking with LDS's, they tell me that based on the type of diving that I plan on doing, a BP/W setup is not for me. Mostly because it is so customizable and I don't know how to setup them up properly. They made it sound like the BC is a simple option for newbie grab and go diving

I'm just kinda winging on the computer. Some tell me its a must have, others recommend diving tables. I don't need the high dollar ones for sure, but seems like a nice amenity though.

I really want to develop a relationship with a local LDS. The closest one I can find that sells Apeks is a decent distance from my house and I don't get down that way too often. I chose my regs based on what the LDS near me carry.

Yeah, the Octo/Inflator thing seems to be a really hot topic. I like the idea of it in theory with no experience to back it up, but I get about 50/50 reviews from the experienced divers I talk to. I guess I could always add another octo later if I don't like it. What caused you to stop using them?

I was hoping the LDS would let me get in the pool with some fins at least to figure out which ones I like. I've heard recommendations on split fins in either the ScubaPro, Apollo or X-fin. One LDS said to stay away from them though for diving currents. I've heard about 90/10 pro split fins at this point.

I purposely left out the wetsuit. I don't know what to get for my area. I was just going to talk with the LDS about that when I got there. Any recommendations? I hear Henderson Hyperstretch are good for bigger guys like me.

 

[Diver0001]

Yeah, the Octo/Inflator thing seems to be a really hot topic. I like the idea of it in theory with no experience to back it up, but I get about 50/50 reviews from the experienced divers I talk to. I guess I could always add another octo later if I don't like it. What caused you to stop using them?

Well.....I never really had any horror stories to back up the need for changing. Octo/inflators do have a couple of advantages, namely that you are always sure where they are (in contrast to how many people deal with their octopus) and they do eliminate one hose.

The reason I used one in the first place had to do with the regulator I had at the time. It was an Aqualung Aquarius from 1974 and it only had 2 LP ports on it. I needed one port for my primary reg (obviously) and one for my BCD (obviously) and one for my drysuit and one for my octopus...... you get the picture :11:

So.... eliminating one hose with an Air-II just allowed me to run my primary reg on it's own port and the other stuff on the other port. That just felt like the right thing to do.

Since then (in about 1995 in guess) I bought a new reg and then had more ports than I needed. I switched back to the traditional octopus at that time. The reg I bought in 1995 was a Sherwood Maximus and it had a longer than normal hose on the primary.
Sherwood's "revolutionary" idea was to stand off the primary and use your own octopus if your buddy needed air. I debated keeping the AIR-II but I had been reading about DIR and decided to try putting the octopus on a necklace (since the reg had one). I found that it had some advantages and the AIR-II found it's way to my bag of old gear.

I guess that's just all to say that the AIR-II just sort of outlived it's usefulness for me.

R..

 

[spectrum]

Where are you taking a 10 year old that will require a dive computer from the get go especially? I'd wait on that one, you should both master the tables and for that matter it will be a while before even those have an impact. What are your agencies junior certification boundaries? The more you dive pre-buy the better your celection will be, You'll get to others in action and better understand your dive style. AI IMO is just another thing to go wrong.

You will need instruments Depth, Pressure and a Compass either in a console or scattered.

The SSI is nice in the world of alternate second stage/inflators but many will question the suitability of that style in general. Count me as one of them.
http://www.scubaboard.com/member.php?u=27963

I assune several wetsuits, hoods, booties and gloves are in there somewhere. 50F is not 3mm territory.

For that dive count renting cylinders is probably a good way to start.

A timepiece that has a band that will go over a wetsuit. It need not be anything fancy starting out. Mud, silt, salt and all will take a toll. If you find a Timex Helix around <$40. that makes a neat instrument with auto start, temp, depth and elapsed and time of day in dive track mode. Do not use it as your primary depth instrument, the sampling is too slow.

Will you need a dive flag in your region?

Some basic cutting tool in case you get fouled in fishing line or something. inexpensive EMT shears do the trick for many. You may also want a knife.

Weights and perhaps a belt depending where they need to go to get your trim right.

After that I think you're good to go.

Have fun, you're giving your daughter a pricelss gift. I waited 30 years too long to take up the sport.

Pete

My 10 year old daughter and I just finished our PADI OW certification and have been bitten hard by the dive bug. We are trying to finalize a big gear purchase for the both of us and would appreciate any advice the board members have to offer regarding this. Hopefully, we'll be diving locally in Texas in nothing colder than 50 degree at the lowest (hopefully warmer) and then the occasional trip to Cozumel or similar location. ScubaToys is looking to be our LDS of preference, although there are a couple of other nice shops locally as well. Here is the list of things we are closing in on:

Zeagle Brigade (both of us - modular design for growth)
Aeris Atmos AI (both - maybe an Atoms Hoseless Elite for me)
Regulators are up in the air (ScubaPro, Atomic, Zeagle)
Atomic SS1 octo/inflator for me
Zeagle Octo for her
Apollo Bio Fins or X-Fins
Whatever mask that fits

My thoughts for going that route revolve around the modularity of the Zeagle, the simplicity and less conservative nature of the Aeris, and getting a quality regulator that is soon to be decided hopefully I'm uncertain how long my daughter (or I) for that matter will be into Scuba, or exactly how frequently we could go. 15-20 dives a year seems feasible, but we are still looking into local spots and clubs. My thought is spend the money to get good equipment for safety and comfort which would hopefully prod us to do more diving. But I also think dropping $4k or so for a couple of newbie divers may be a bit excessive especially since we are land locked and surrounded by muddy lakes. Any bit of advice on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[spectrum]

I had not read this second post Jarrett before making my first response and would like to add a few comments...

If you're that close on a BP/W don't let the LDS sell you short. You're a grown man and a bonafide certified diver. I was in the same boat a month ago and went the grab and go route with a Sherwood Avid and it's working out great. But that BP/W is still calling my name. If the SCUBA DIVING magazine artical had run a few weeks earlier I'd have DSS Singles rig. I really think the BP/W is intransition this year from obscure / technical to a more common usage. There are plenty of resources in the BC forum to guide you through setting up a rig. I bet a local mentor will even surface if you ask. I know I had several generous offers.

Remember that every dive shop owner is also a salesman. Look at your planned diving and do not buy ahead. Buy quality stuff but not items you don't need yet. If they say you need this or you will die (or your taking chances with your daughters welfare) run the other way. If you were well trained you already know what you need.

Devour these gear forums and ask questions. Find all of the back issues of Dive Training magazine and both of you should read all of the techical articles. You can read the eco/travel stuff at your lesire.

Even if you upgrade to a distinct alternate second stage do you really want to have that bulky inflator in your hand going forward?

Get out and see what local divers are really wearing. If you're getting down into the lower 50s 7mm is the game. you may get by with a 5mm fullsuit and vests. In fact consider a layered aproach so you can deal with the warmer dives too. In the end the vacation dives may want a different suit depending on exact destinantion and season but 3mm suits can be had for not much over $100. I like the BARE line. they have a good selection of sizes and cuts including more sizes than most and a real junior line for your daughter.

Depending what you mean by being a "big guy" IMO don't buy a hyperstretch because it will stretch so much you can get into it. You either fit or you dont. If you don't, go custom for a small premium. You both want to try your suits before buying Fit is everything, you should have a full range of motion, a close, slightly snug fit and it must not help you exhale.

A suit that is stretched is being stressed and is no longer the advertised thickness or protection. It's also easy to find reports of hyperstretch not holding up that well, search here and decide.

Good luck and post often,
Dive safe and often.,
Pete

Thanks for the advice thus far. When speaking with LDS's, they tell me that based on the type of diving that I plan on doing, a BP/W setup is not for me. Mostly because it is so customizable and I don't know how to setup them up properly. They made it sound like the BC is a simple option for newbie grab and go diving

I'm just kinda winging on the computer. Some tell me its a must have, others recommend diving tables. I don't need the high dollar ones for sure, but seems like a nice amenity though.

I really want to develop a relationship with a local LDS. The closest one I can find that sells Apeks is a decent distance from my house and I don't get down that way too often. I chose my regs based on what the LDS near me carry.

Yeah, the Octo/Inflator thing seems to be a really hot topic. I like the idea of it in theory with no experience to back it up, but I get about 50/50 reviews from the experienced divers I talk to. I guess I could always add another octo later if I don't like it. What caused you to stop using them?

I was hoping the LDS would let me get in the pool with some fins at least to figure out which ones I like. I've heard recommendations on split fins in either the ScubaPro, Apollo or X-fin. One LDS said to stay away from them though for diving currents. I've heard about 90/10 pro split fins at this point.

I purposely left out the wetsuit. I don't know what to get for my area. I was just going to talk with the LDS about that when I got there. Any recommendations? I hear Henderson Hyperstretch are good for bigger guys like me.