Request for Newbie Gear Check

[jbichsel]

Jarret, we've emailed and spoken on the phone before, but just wanted to add my $0.02 to some other comments here:

If you're that close on a BP/W don't let the LDS sell you short. You're a grown man and a bonafide certified diver. I was in the same boat a month ago and went the grab and go route with a Sherwood Avid and it's working out great. But that BP/W is still calling my name. If the SCUBA DIVING magazine artical had run a few weeks earlier I'd have DSS Singles rig. I really think the BP/W is intransition this year from obscure / technical to a more common usage. There are plenty of resources in the BC forum to guide you through setting up a rig. I bet a local mentor will even surface if you ask. I know I had several generous offers.

I agree. Don't let me or any other LDS talk you into something you're not comfortable with. That's why my offer to let you try different styles still stands.

Remember that every dive shop owner is also a salesman. Look at your planned diving and do not buy ahead. Buy quality stuff but not items you don't need yet. If they say you need this or you will die (or your taking chances with your daughters welfare) run the other way. If you were well trained you already know what you need.

I agree. To a point. You don't need to spend an insane amount of money and have one of every item in the store. You do need to plan on future diving to some extent. Being new to diving, don't get lured into buying the biggest, flashiest gizmo available. Not necessary. Again, to my point of being able to offer the use of Aqualung Legend and Titan models and several Apeks so that you can pick which would be best for you and your daughter.

Same with BC's. We have the full line of SeaQuest plus some Dacor that you are welcome to try.

In my experience, the biggest factor to making divers comfortable and confident, is making them comforatable in their equipment AND training. If you feel good about your equipment, that's one less thing to worry about.

Devour these gear forums and ask questions. Find all of the back issues of Dive Training magazine and both of you should read all of the techical articles. You can read the eco/travel stuff at your lesire.

Excellent advice. I have several years of Dive Training archived if you would like copies. Just let me know. We can also set you up with a free six month subscription. If you like I can mail you the form.

Even if you upgrade to a distinct alternate second stage do you really want to have that bulky inflator in your hand going forward?

Good point in addition to the limitations we spoke about on the phone.

Get out and see what local divers are really wearing. If you're getting down into the lower 50s 7mm is the game. you may get by with a 5mm fullsuit and vests. In fact consider a layered aproach so you can deal with the warmer dives too. In the end the vacation dives may want a different suit depending on exact destinantion and season but 3mm suits can be had for not much over $100. I like the BARE line. they have a good selection of sizes and cuts including more sizes than most and a real junior line for your daughter.

Excellent advice again. I think I like Pete! My recommendation for our area is to have your own 2 or 3mm. That covers you for the warm season around here plus Carribean. If you decide to try some 'off season' diving when the climate is cooler, rent something until you decide that you are going to do enough diving to make the additional purchase worth while. Again, keep your equipment investments to a minimum so you can hopefully travel more to enjoy diving more.

Depending what you mean by being a "big guy" IMO don't buy a hyperstretch because it will stretch so much you can get into it. You either fit or you dont. If you don't, go custom for a small premium. You both want to try your suits before buying Fit is everything, you should have a full range of motion, a close, slightly snug fit and it must not help you exhale.

A suit that is stretched is being stressed and is no longer the advertised thickness or protection. It's also easy to find reports of hyperstretch not holding up that well, search here and decide.

Agree but again only so far. Henderson Hyperstretch is amazing but pricey. I'm 6'2", 230 lbs and can fit into a small Hyperstrecth. I can't breath, but it will stretch that much. However, you still need to buy one that is the correct size. The plus to Hyperstretch is that it is super easy to put on and very forgiving should your body mass fluctuate. The down side is that it compresses more at depth so less insulation and it snags easily. And agin the price.

Good luck and post often,
Dive safe and often.,
Pete

Diving equipment is pricey no matter what brand, style, color. That's why you the consumer, should be comfortable and confident that you have made the best purchase for YOU. Not for the dive store. If you decide to take me up on my offer to try our gear, great. I think you will like it and decide it's the right stuff. If you try it and decide some other brand is right for you, fine. Hopefully we each at least made a friend that we can dive together some times.

Best wishes

Jerry

 

[Jarrett]

Jerry, thanks for all the info. At this point, I am fairly sure I am going to go with ScubaToys for this first purchase. We will definitely be at CCSP on Sunday afternoon and possiblly there tomorrow afternoon if everything works out. Hope we can meet up and dive sometime. Thanks.

 

[jbichsel]

Jerry, thanks for all the info. At this point, I am fairly sure I am going to go with ScubaToys for this first purchase. We will definitely be at CCSP on Sunday afternoon and possiblly there tomorrow afternoon if everything works out. Hope we can meet up and dive sometime. Thanks.

Oh well, I tried. Don't see how Carrollton is closer than Hillsboro but I wish you the best.
We will not be there this weekend but I'll keep you posted and maybe you can join us some weekend.
Good luck and happy diving.

 

[Rec Diver]

Computer--Personally I don't see the appeal of an air-integrated computer. I'd just as soon have a wrist mounted non-ai computer, and an analogue spg on a hose.

Ditto! It's pretty crappy when you PC quits working while your reading the SB, but it really sucks when computer quits at depth.

 

[Jarrett]

How often does that happen with the Aeris Atmos AI computers? From the majoirty of the people I have talked to about it, it's rare.

Total newb talking here but when thinking down that theoretical path, if I had any type of equipment failure, I would be ready to go up. I mean, if I had a computer and a separate analog pressure gauge and computer failed, I wouldn't want to keep diving because at that point I would have no idea how long I could safely stay at that dept So the result would be the same for me in the case of a dead computer whether I was diving with an AI computer or not. That thought process prompted me to make my console as compact as possible and go with the AI setup. Thoughts?

 

[diversteve]

How often does that happen with the Aeris Atmos AI computers? From the majoirty of the people I have talked to about it, it's rare.

Total newb talking here but when thinking down that theoretical path, if I had any type of equipment failure, I would be ready to go up. I mean, if I had a computer and a separate analog pressure gauge and computer failed, I wouldn't want to keep diving because at that point I would have no idea how long I could safely stay at that dept So the result would be the same for me in the case of a dead computer whether I was diving with an AI computer or not. That thought process prompted me to make my console as compact as possible and go with the AI setup. Thoughts?

I've never met anyone with an Aeris computer who's had it fail. That includes my regular buddy, divers I"ve met on boats over the years, my local scuba group etc. Not that it doesn't happen...

I can see your line of reasoning, failure of any instrument is a reason to call the dive.

My one point would be not to rely so much on the computer, you should still be doing manual dive-planning, and diving your plan, even with a computer, it's a redundant system. You should still always know "how long you can stay at that depth" without relying on the computer to tell you. You may find yourself in an overhead obstructed situation where you can't immediately surface or having to assist your daughter in some situation.

I'd seriously re-think the hoseless Elite also, you're just adding two more potential failure points (the transmitter and receiver) for a little convenience.

I have a set of Scubapro mini-gauges and a non-AI wrist-mount computer, multiple times every dive I validate my computer depth/time against my depth gauge/watch and mental dive plan. Just in case something has gone wrong with either option.

I think relying solely on the computer can be dangerous. Also learn how to safely ascend w/o relying on the computer, if you have a problem, you should know instinctively how to regulate your ascent rate without it as you'll be too excited and busy with more urgent tasks to watch the computer.

Having said all that my next computer will probably be an AI, although I might just have to buy that Titanium Mares Nemo instead

And regarding the SS1/Zeagle Octo idea, while it seems reasonable to eliminate the extra second stage - consider the possibility that there's a failure and you're sharing air with someone - your daughter?

So now you're controlling the buoyancy for both of you. As you start to ascend, the gas in both your BC's is going to start expanding, so you'll need to vent it. Although the Zeagle's have a shoulder dump, you'll possibly need to vent gas quicker especially since your partner may be unable to vent their BC, it's possible if it's your daughter, she's too excited or (god forbid) unconscious.

So in the midst of all this you now have to remove the SS1 from your mouth, vent air over your head, purge it and re-insert it in your mouth, while maintaining a grip on your daughter with your other hand. If your daughter is unresponsive, you'll also be trying to compensate for the effects of the gas expanding in her BC as well. Seems to me like you'd need 3 hands to do this effectively.

And what if it's her trying to bring you back to the surface? With a regular redundant second stage, you're holding on to each other and you have a free hand to vent gas from your/her BC as needed.

Also how were you and your daughter - taught to share air in class? In an emergency that training should be instinctive, so if you do go with the SS1/Zeagle Octo, I'd practice with them in a safe environment repeatedly first.

And everytime you're diving with a buddy who doesn't know your system, you'll have to explain that they will get your primary in an emergency, I've heard of OOA divers not being too polite about grabbing for it when they think they're dying. So it could be a surprise to have your primary ripped out of your mouth. Having a bright yellow secondary in a visible place gives them a much better target.

Something to think about...

I own Atomics regs - and can't say enough good things about their performance, the SS1 was an option when I bought mine, instead I bought a Z1 with a yellow cover on it. Might have even been cheaper also.

And the SS1 has both a detachable inflator and BCD hose fitting - so you can store it with your regs instead of leaving it on the BC, so you've now got two more potential failure points. And although most diveboats carry tank o-rings, I'm guessing that the o-ring on the quick disconnect would be larger, so it would be unfortunate if you needed one on a divetrip. I can pretty much guarantee no diveboat will have an extra SS1 inflator lying around.

my .02

Steve

 

[Jarrett]

Whew, lots of points

Of course we will do a table-based pre dive to know the general guidelines of the dive.

Not buying the Elite, going AI. Might get a mini guage at some point.

You make good points about the SS1. Dangit! I really like that thing. But for the sake of safety, it might be better to not use it. Talking to a guy with several thousand dives under his belt, eh said he uses them and has never had an issue. It's one of those one in a million things. Tough decision.

 

[jonnythan]

If you go with the SS1, it's vital that you get in the water and practice doing air shares and air sharing ascents with it. I wouldn't use one but that's just me.

Your other stuff looks good to me and you can't really go wrong with ScubaToys.

 

[Jarrett]

Does anyone know of anyone that has ever had a problem with one?

 

[jonnythan]

I don't think I've heard of a *problem*, but if you're diving an octo/inflator, you will have to donate your *primary* in the event of an OOA emergency. This may or may not be something you've ever done.

The problem, the way I see it, is that the typical primary hose is way, way too short for this arrangement. You are literally in the other diver's face, neither of you have room to move, and this does nothing but increase the anxiety level. If I were diving with an octo/inflator, I would put my primary on either a 40" hose that runs under my arm, or a 5'-7' hose that runs down my back, across my chest, and behind my neck.