Reply from Viking re: Oriskany ripoff

[notabob]

Parrot???? NAW! I thought of those words all by myself!

As THAL mentioned, I am not against artifact recovery in itself....I like archeological recoveries. Just the illegal taking of items from areas intended for heavy diving use.
Bye the way, "vicious criminals" were your words, not mine.
Legal recoveries I have less issue with. I just wish people would ask themselves "where is the geatest overall value? On my mantle or left for all to share?"
Visitors to wreck dive destinations (CHUUCK) could help answer that. It amazes me when I hear of people removing ordinance and momentos from there. Illegal? yes. Dangerous? yes. Sad? yes. I, for one, like seeing the clarinet still laying on the shelf in the cabin.
Hmmm silly me....

Allison, while the quoted paragraph was yours, the response was meant to be more general. I'm getting very tired of all the BS and name-calling both here and in the rest of the scuba-related media. You may have thought of "plunderers" by yourself when writing your post, but I've heard the word, combined with "vicious criminals" and many other very choice excerpts from someone's thesaurus one too many times. The words originated in one specific source that I'm not going to bring up again, and have been parroted ever since by the general diving public that that "source" has been whipping up into a frenzy for the last couple of years. So whether you think you did or not, the very words you said have been said before and parroting has been taking place.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

An overwhelming majority of artifacts brought back by divers from the wrecks they visit took an awful lot of work to find and recover. A lot of research, training, experience, and downright expense getting to the wrecks. Wrecks that 99% of people will never dive in their life because they lack said training and experience, and will never seek it. And as for those wrecks that are within recreational limits - most of the artifacts recovered from various wrecks you would never even recognize for what they were while on the bottom. Just another piece of endless wreckage that you swim by. The effort that those divers put forth to recover, restore, preserve, and _share_ those artifacts should be commended, instead of being insulted. And yes, I said share. I've seen MANY divers going out of their way to share their finds with others at dive shows, stores, etc. They're letting many more see these pieces of history, where as they would disappear into oblivion never to be seen by ANYONE again. EVER. Instead, these artifacts live on to inspire and fascinate the next generation. Not bad for a plunderer...

I'm sure Mr. Sleppy had to research long and hard to find the Oriskany ... I'm sure it cost him a ton of money to locate the wreck ... and he deserves the spoils of his labor.

In truth, if Mr. Sleppy wants to go out and locate a real wreck and take artifacts off of it, I don't think you'd find anybody on this board objecting. But taking things off of an artificial reef, meant for public use, isn't recovery ... it's theft ... no matter how you try to justify it.

A better analogy is shooting ducks in a park and calling it hunting ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Thalassamania]

Allison, while the quoted paragraph was yours, the response was meant to be more general. I'm getting very tired of all the BS and name-calling both here and in the rest of the scuba-related media. You may have thought of "plunderers" by yourself when writing your post, but I've heard the word, combined with "vicious criminals" and many other very choice excerpts from someone's thesaurus one too many times. The words originated in one specific source that I'm not going to bring up again, and have been parroted ever since by the general diving public that that "source" has been whipping up into a frenzy for the last couple of years. So whether you think you did or not, the very words you said have been said before and parroting has been taking place.

OK, I have no idea whom you're talking about. I'll use those words: plunderers, vicious criminals, and I got them from you.

 

[notabob]

OK, I have no idea whom you're talking about. I'll use those words: plunderers, vicious criminals, and I got them from you.

The words and insults started with CDNN. An organization that has a propensity to steal someone else's work, stick in a few choice words and phrases of their own, and republish as exclusive original material.

 

[Thalassamania]

You may have a focus on CDNN (I had to google it to find out what it was). If you've had those things done to you, I'm truly sorry.

 

[notabob]

You may have a focus on CDNN (I had to google it to find out what it was). If you've had those things done to you, I'm truly sorry.

Not to me personally... I'm a nobody in the grand scheme of things. But nevertheless the insults directed at wreck divers started with them. I've heard the exact same words (plunderers, criminals, etc.) repeated by the mob ever since, with very little variation. Funny how no one seemed to use them much prior, though. At least not in relation to a specific group of people.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Not to me personally... I'm a nobody in the grand scheme of things. But nevertheless the insults directed at wreck divers started with them. I've heard the exact same words (plunderers, criminals, etc.) repeated by the mob ever since, with very little variation. Funny how no one seemed to use them much prior, though. At least not in relation to a specific group of people.

I'm not sure that CDNN has had much of an impact on this particular discussion ... I think for the most part people wouldn't even be discussing the subject if this ship were not an artificial reef.

I really do believe that's the issue ... and the discussion should stay focused on the merits (or lack thereof) of taking artifacts off of a ship that was intentionally sunk for public use, rather than the merits (or lack thereof) of artifact recovery in general.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Thalassamania]

I've never complained about stuff of the Doria, hell ... I've got some of it myself. Its what I perceive to be the thoughtless abuse of a public resourse that I object to.

 

[notabob]

I'm not sure that CDNN has had much of an impact on this particular discussion ... I think for the most part people wouldn't even be discussing the subject if this ship were not an artificial reef.

While CDNN may not have had much impact on this particular topic, it was the namecalling that originated with CDNN in regards to a related topic and has since spread to be used against anyone bringing up an artifact from a wreck, that was bothering me.

...and the discussion should stay focused on the merits (or lack thereof) of taking artifacts off of a ship that was intentionally sunk for public use...

I really think that everything that could be said has already been said, on both sides. There hasn't really been any new discussion relating to the original topic you reference above. I think this thread has ran its course. If people insist on continuing on with that discussion, then I do believe I'm done here...

 

[Aquamaniac]

Can I just point out that this is not an isolated incident.
There are a lot of people who have been, or are directly responsible for things being taken off the Oriskany.
I know for a fact that Aaron Nahapetian, Robert Lee and Charles Bartholomew have all removed items from the Big O. Furthermore, it was all done with the knowledge, ENCOURAGEMENT and approval of Joseph Farrell and Denise Johnston.
There are bigger fish to fry as far as the desecration of this vessel, so dont get hung up on one little incident.

Dave