Religion and scuba

[phoenix31tt]

my bible doesn't use that word... it says:

"5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

but people like you love to take a verse out of context and use it for justification... which is usually the same thing these extremists do... maybe you should read a little further

6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.
9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

please... do not pretend to know "my" bible and what it says... read the whole thing... get some understanding... and then you can have a discussion... don't randomly pull a verse and think it justifies what you are saying...

servants in this passage is NOTHING compared to the slave trade... these servants are by choice, contract or duty... as are most of us are who are working...

 

[JohnN]

my bible doesn't use that word... it says:

"5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

but people like you love to take a verse out of context and use it for justification... which is usually the same thing these extremists do... maybe you should read a little further

6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.
9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

please... do not pretend to know "my" bible and what it says... read the whole thing... get some understanding... and then you can have a discussion... don't randomly pull a verse and think it justifies what you are saying...

servants in this passage is NOTHING compared to the slave trade... these servants are by choice, contract or duty... as are most of us are who are working...

Ahh so the Bible is subject to translation variations, contains contradictions and is subject to interpretation. Weren't you the one saying it is the literal word of God ?

PS. Mine came from the King James version. I'm certain you appreciate the historical importance of that VERSION.

 

[phoenix31tt]

Ahh so the Bible is subject to translation variations, contains contradictions and is subject to interpretation. Weren't you the one saying it is the literal word of God ?

PS. Mine came from the King James version.

no i wasn't... and yours did NOT come from the KJV... sheesh

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+6:5&version=KJV

it's like your grasping at straws now... boring... won't waste any more of my time... contrary to what you think i do not work in a circus...

Good day to you sir

 

[descent]

What does the Word of God look like?

I don't mean "the ink marks on parchment made by some medieval scribe or Renaissance translator". Not the teleprompter script for an evangelical tv personality. Not an email about "what I heard last night in a dream", or "everyone with sense knows this fact".

The actual handwriting.

Failing that, how about smudged ink, Fingerprints, or even a bias in the arrangement of the tool marks? Was the universe chiseled out of a mountain of frozen universe-stuff by a left-handed deity or a right-handed one?

Where would we even look?

Let's consider the simple universality of the idea of counting things. A universe with individual things in it has the idea of numbers baked into it at some level.

How did that concept get there?

Your clerk at the register may not be able to count, but newborn chicks, mother ducks and bees can. Whole numbers are a concept outside of language or culture. They work fine in many settings, and do not require humanity, opposable thumbs, or even recognizable hands. Counting seems to be a fundamental bedrock concept of this universe.

Where do numbers come from?

Some scientists look for clues in prime numbers. The subset of whole numbers called the primes is also language- and culture-agnostic.

Primes behave identically in Western base-10 counting systems — so-called decimal systems of numeration — and any other system you care to cook up. For example, hexadecimal (computer science), vigesimal (ancient Mayans, pre-PIE cultures like Basque), sexagesimal (Mesopotamian), etc.

Prime numbers are not tied to any one way of thinking (culture), or even "thinking" at all in the classical Western scientific way.

Invertebrates use prime numbers. The buzzing insects called cicadas have somehow learned to synchronize their emergence at prime-numbered intervals of years, the better to defeat the reproductive strategies of predators. Each tiny little cicada nymph burrowing deep under a tree in total darkness for years on end is somehow able to distinguish a prime numbered year from a non-prime numbered year.


Consider this arrangement of numbers, in familiar base-10. It starts at one in the middle, and spirals outward, counter-clockwise.




Let's remove the numbers that are not prime, leaving behind some quirky, hard-to-divide-by integers that supposedly appear in no particular pattern or order.




Then, let's zoom way out, to show 100,000 prime numbers. Hey, wait. A pattern is emerging!




Why is the fabric of our universe woven so that this irregular rosette appears?

Is it a big dent, made when some other universe slammed into ours hard enough to crumple the series of whole numbers?

Is it a fancy logo? Is ours a designer universe?

Is it a meaningless artifact, like the tag on my mattress?

Is it a signature?

 

[Storker]

science beats bull****e every time.

This.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and nothing has so far managed to falsify the null hypothesis (that there is no omnipotent Jehovah/Allah/Zeus/Odin/Flying Spaghetti Monster). The deity hypothesis, OTOH, seriously lacks support in the data.

What this has to do with diving is a bit hard to see, though.


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---------- Post added July 17th, 2015 at 10:02 AM ----------

Here's a breakdown of the religious affiliation among the prison population. It clearly shows how your proposed relation between religion and morality is deeply rooted in reality. Or something.

View attachment 212643

You could also look at the correlation between violent crime rates (and recidivism) and religiosity of societies. If memory serves me right, the most secular countries have the lowest violent crime rates.


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Typos are a feature, not a bug

 

[NAM001]

Dont you think that there is a difference is "In the name of" and :in accordance with" Heck i can say in the name of i will run this stop sign. Such an act does not make the person using his name one that is using it properly. Improper use is not a flaw with the over all truth but in the improper use of it. Im sure (positicve) that there are references to false profeits and teachers. Most that use the argument of atrocities done in the name of and it just doesnt hold water. Any one that says in the name of , commit an atrocity is NOT doing the atrocity in the name of. They are doing so in contridiction of the riligion. To believe otherwise is to say that cults are legitimate religous groups acting in his name.

Sorry I temporarily forgot your N=1 belief in apocryphal stories. I would have no trouble naming any number of atrocities done in the name of religion, some as recent as this week (ISIL) and going back through all of recorded history. It is hard for me to conceive of counterweighting positive examples. I look forward to your reply

---------- Post added July 17th, 2015 at 03:52 AM ----------

It never fails to amaze me that those opposed to personal faith of those who believe always take on such overt actions to concvince believers that they are miss guided. fsith in god to them is no different than faith in a licky penny of a rabbbits foot. YET there is no massive movement to discredit those who believe in rabbits feet. Why is that? Is it that the rabbit never said anything about not doing wrong. Is it that the rabbit never laid down the rules for a peacefull existance. Is it that the rabbit never put ot 10 toop rules about what is wrong under all circumstances. The rabbit never said break the rules and you will perrish and follow them and you will live forever. It seams that its the non believers that are doing all the talking. The rules are unfair, there is no way to comply with them all so they are not valid. The rules make every one wrong and as such dont apply to me. wa wa wa. It kind of comes down to the rules are accepted as real because some how we all know what is right or wrong. The argument is about who will be rewarded the most for following them. Every behavior has a consequence the believer knows this and keeps to them selves and knows whos judgement of said behavior is the one that counts. The non believer's are those that dont necessarily discout a supream being but find objection to not being rewarded for what they think are rightfull deeds. Any good religion will teach act selflessly and be rewarded in the end. Anything else will teach do now and reward now and if possible demand reward first and then act. Religion is an organization of faith, where is the faith when you have the deck stacked in your favor by guarenteed rewards on a case by case basis. When you dicede that you are the one that keeps the ledger book of what you are owed to insure that you get what you believe you have coming you get,,,, nothing. No one remembers anyone for what they had in the bank. They remember you for the selfless acts that always seem to acompany you through your life. Those without religion are generally void of such behaviors. Those behaviors ore the tests of life. Those who believe that there is reward in just doing right are the ones tht are always under criticism from those that dont. Those that abuse religion no more reflect the religion than the ones who kill with guns reflect the proper use of guns. In the instance of guns like the non believers they will dwell on the .001% of the gun users that missuse the gun to prove thier behavior is common to all gun owners. When if comes to faith non believers willsay that they have faith in science untill science starts to shift to other than confortable conclusions. ONe last thing about faith..... Faith has never hurt any one, a state of mind has never hurt anyone.

 

[phoenix31tt]

This.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and nothing has so far managed to falsify the null hypothesis (that there is no omnipotent Jehovah/Allah/Zeus/Odin/Flying Spaghetti Monster). The deity hypothesis, OTOH, seriously lacks support in the data.

It's so silly when you think about it...

It's impossible with current technology for us to see the milky way... Yet everybody believes they know what it looks like... Some rendered images... Have you personally seen the evidence of how scientist determined this is what the milky way looks like... I doubt it... But you take their word for it because we all know science is never wrong... We've had to re-write science everytime we get more advanced, heck Pluto was thought to be a planet for how many years... All of a sudden we only have 8 planets... Because science said so right and you stand by science everytime even though it's been wrong so many times...

I watched a video with sharks living in an active volcano... The scientists comment was "this goes against what we knew about active volcanoes we really didn't expect to find this much life down here"...

Science is limited based on our own advancement in technology... The more advanced we become the more we know... It amazes me to think that any true scientist can't fathom the concept of a supreme being... Given the things we have discovered in the last millinium

But shun the word of so many people who have seen evidence that God does exist... Because you haven't seen it yourself... Maybe one day you could be so fortunate



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---------- Post added July 17th, 2015 at 06:31 AM ----------

It would be hard for a 2d stick man to comprehend a 3d person...

If space and time are dimensions... We exist within them and are bound by them... Anybody that exists beyond them are, to us, omnipotent... Maybe that's why it's so hard to comprehend... Because of our 3d nature it's hard...


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[Diver0001]

This.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and nothing has so far managed to falsify the null hypothesis (that there is no omnipotent Jehovah/Allah/Zeus/Odin/Flying Spaghetti Monster). The deity hypothesis, OTOH, seriously lacks support in the data.

Actually, the scientific evidence for intelligence emerging from the randomness of nature is all around you. The fact that I'm writing this and you are reading it and understanding me is all the proof we need for the emergence of intelligence.

But lets break that down. What is "intelligence" or for that matter self awareness, consciousness and so forth?

The science would tell is that it's all just chemicals interacting in a certain type of natural construction. The issue of whether or not a soul (if we have one) is alive I'll park for the moment. We do, however, see evidence that personality, which is certainly one element we identify with our "self" or our "soul" is largely a fabrication of the brain. Alter the brain and personality alters. There can also be no question as to whether or not we are self conscious. The question is to *what degree*

The next step in understanding our "intelligence" is to break down what is happening within those chemicals. They all consist of molecules, which consist of atoms, which consist of smaller and smaller particles. The science would suggest that when you break it down into small enough bits, everything, mass, energy, even those chemical reactions that cause "intelligence" or a self aware personality, break down into components that are both matter and energy. E=MC^2. We've known about this for quite a while now and although we mostly use it to blow each other up, it also serves as the foundation to explain life, and to explain intelligence.

Now.... here comes the theorizing. We're used to "intelligence" in nice little packages, however, when you break it down to the quantum level what we are is little bundles of focused energy .... what is to stop another bundling of energy, say ... a rock... from also having some qualities of intelligence at the quantum level but such that we cannot perceive it as human beings.... After all, the rock is made of the same stuff we are.

Now lets take it big. The science tells us that something like 85% of the universe is imperceptible to us. Dark matter. The science also tells us that out there in the heavens, about 68% of all energy cannot be accounted for. Since we have already established that intelligence is a function of matter and energy interacting, what could be stopping the universe from developing intelligence on a scale and in a form that we can neither perceive nor really understand. Perhaps our rock is part of it. Maybe our rock is literally part of an intelligence that is so vast that it spans the entire universe. Our rock could literally be "God" if you want to put it in those terms.

Science tells us that this is possible and everywhere you look there is proof that it actually happens.

Now, that's obviously a long way from some kind of omnipotent, omniscient, God that is interested in the various machinations of the human condition. This, of course, is something we humans have dreamed up ourselves in order to provide a framework for understanding our lives. God, in the sense suggested by various religions, seems unlikely to exist, in my mind, but as I said, the science suggests that something analogous could.

R..

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

ONe last thing about faith..... Faith has never hurt any one, a state of mind has never hurt anyone.

... try explaining that to a gay person ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[cb5150]

I once had a divemaster in Cozumel named Jesus. He was so fat that he couldn't zip the back of his wetsuit so he just dove with it open. He dived with one faded blue full foot fin that had a huge rip in the foot pocket. His other fin was an open heel yellow Atomic split fin.

I learned a lot more than scuba from watching him.