bleeb
Contributor
:doh: D'oh. Forgot that. Guess that's what you can get reading a thread over a few days, and then skimming too quickly when reviewing things.
Reg lockup
- Thread starter NancyLynn
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:doh: D'oh. Forgot that. Guess that's what you can get reading a thread over a few days, and then skimming too quickly when reviewing things.
Thanks - that's the kind of "field test" I'm looking for - something to do that might tell me something about the source of the problem.
I am sure the purge valve was pressed at some point. I am not sure whether I did it while it was locked or not. The reg locked up, then the next morning it worked for a little while, then failed again. I am certain the purge valve was pressed (and responded as expected) as part of trying to figure out what was wrong - I just don't recall whether I tried it only during that brief morning period when it seemed to be working, or also during one or both lockups. (I think I pressed it during the initial failure, which is part of how I knew I just hadn't forgotten to open the valve - but I don't absolutely recall.)
Let's see what pressing the purge valve might tell me -
If it works, air is making it through the LP hose - at least when the orifice is opened by physically pressing the lever (through the button), as opposed to being opened through a change in relative pressure within the reg due to my inhalation causing a gentler push on the lever by the diaphragm.
Probably would rule out an obstruction in the hose - if high pressure air gets through, it either blew out the obstruction or there was none (and wouldn't block again)?
Would it rule out blockage by a piece of debris within the MK16?
It could still be caused by a piece of debris within the R390 - either compressible by brute force (the purge valve), but not compressible enough for the inhalation pressure change in pressure to cause the diaphragm to compress it - or perhaps it was blown around during the free-flow, but not out of the reg and reseated itself, accounting for the intermittent nature of the problem.
So as a field test - if my reasoning is right - a functioning purge valve (with subsequent blockage) probably only rules out the LP hose as the source of the blockage.
Would a non-functioning purge valve tell me anything (aside from "call the dive")? I don't think it would.
Would a non-functioning purge valve on the reg and a functioning one on the octo mean the source of the problem was the reg? or is there some way there could be a first stage problem that would impact the reg but not the octo?
By spare regulator, do you mean full setup - 1st stage, hoses, and two second stages?
That's what would be helpful to me - and I hoped perhaps to others - to make sure a incident doesn't turn into a (potentially fatal) accident. If I have a breathing apparatus failure what are some things I can do do to troubleshoot at the time, particularly as it relates to whether I can safely dive with just a second stage swap out, or whether I need a whole new setup.
Try the purge valve is one thing (and I have tried to reason through what the results might mean in another post). Any other trouble shooting hints?
R
redacted
Guest
If purging produces flow, then the problem is in the 2nds stage. Time to look for crap inside the 2nd that would cause more work to open the valve.
I carry a complete spare setup so it is remove bad reg and install good reg and dive with little or no delay. But just a spare 1st and 2nd and the tools to do the switching should get you in the water in 5 minutes or so.
If the purge depress but no gas flows, then check out the hose. Remove the 2nd from the hose and turn on the tank. No flow, problem is in hose or 1st stage LP port. Got flow, then hose is good and its back to the 2nd stage.
If the purge does not depress, then there would seem to be a serious obstruction inside the 2nd.
Once you know gas is flowing through the LP hose, it's time to remove the cover from the 2nd and see what is going on inside. Crap obstructing the diaphragm/lever movement, a broken lever, missing lock nut.... There just are not too many things that could cause such a failure.
If you have a spare, you go to it as soon as you determine it is not some crap that can easily be removed through the mouthpiece or sooner; and worry about it again during the SI.
I'm pretty sure he means a complete setup, ready to go. I always carry one on trips, too. There may not be time for tinkering around, analyzing problems or getting tools and swapping out parts. If my buddy is in the water or it's a group dive, I'll just swap out the whole reg in less than 60 seconds and get on with the dive, and figure out the problem later.
If your reg appears to be functioning in all respects on the surface, I'd say dive it. Again, a reg failure should not be "potentially fatal". Your dive plan and your training should have you prepared to handle any single equipment failure.
If your reg appears to be functioning in all respects on the surface, I'd say dive it. Again, a reg failure should not be "potentially fatal". Your dive plan and your training should have you prepared to handle any single equipment failure.
R
redacted
Guest
The more common problem is a hissing 2nd. Here an IP gauge is the primary trouble shooting tool to determine if the problem is a 1st or 2nd stage. May also be done by swapping components with a good system but that is pretty time consuming. Its the kind of thing you do when you are done diving. I usually take an IP gauge with me when I travel but it stays in the room and gets used after the diving.
By carrying a complete spare rig, you can get it the water faster if there is a problem plus you have the HP hose and SPG (two other common failure points). You could get away without the spare octo but you only save a little $$$ and it cost time to make the swaps.
) Don't recall it hissing at the time of the incident.
Very strange combination of symptoms so much so that I have to think there is some combination of multiple failures or errors in the observations.
IP creeping to 200 PSI? This would cause a free flow on the primary 2nd stage, if not both depending how closely they were set. The likelihood of swapping a second stage onto the rig and have it be happy at that sort of IP is highly unlikely.
Not knowing that particular regulator the nature of an internal problem is not something I can comment on. It sounds like it could be debris jamming the delivery valve or in a hose. I have seen other pressure lines (auto brakes) break down internally such that an attached flap of rubber forms a check valve, stopping flow.
Congratulations on deciding to get more involved with your gear. Knowledge is your friend as a consumer and diver. This book should be of interest. It has a very thorough generic approach with plenty of specifics as well.
I'll reiterate the suggestion or traveling with a back-up regulator set. It sounds like you are well traveled and this would be a form of trip insurance.
Pete
IP creeping to 200 PSI? This would cause a free flow on the primary 2nd stage, if not both depending how closely they were set. The likelihood of swapping a second stage onto the rig and have it be happy at that sort of IP is highly unlikely.
Not knowing that particular regulator the nature of an internal problem is not something I can comment on. It sounds like it could be debris jamming the delivery valve or in a hose. I have seen other pressure lines (auto brakes) break down internally such that an attached flap of rubber forms a check valve, stopping flow.
Congratulations on deciding to get more involved with your gear. Knowledge is your friend as a consumer and diver. This book should be of interest. It has a very thorough generic approach with plenty of specifics as well.
I'll reiterate the suggestion or traveling with a back-up regulator set. It sounds like you are well traveled and this would be a form of trip insurance.
Pete
Thanks! Looks like a good book. For some reason, diving has been different from my other leisure activities in that I didn't jump right into the nitty gritty of the equipment. (In fact, when I went to pick up my reg I was on my way to teach basic bike maintenance to a new group of bike patrol volunteers.) Guess I just need to get on the ball with my scuba gear.
I have a "new to me" set and just had this problem happen with my ScubaPro R190 (I think that's the model). It's gotten me through a dozen dives but as I was getting in the water last time, I took a breath to test the octo and it just locked up. My IP was good and a trusty old Sherwood replacement got me through the dives.
It's been a few months since I've done it so forgive my lack of detail (or accuracy)...
Since I know the people in my LDS that would soon be doing the service I opened it up to see what the issue was. I figured worst case I take it back to them in pieces and they make fun of me. Best case I fix it then take it in and say "I fixed it, now fix it right". I had good guidance from Vance Harlow's "Scuba Regulator Maintenance and Repair" book in the meantime.
My problem seemed to be in the lever that works the poppet. I opened the front cover and the lever was laying flat against the poppet housing. I lifted it back up to a "rest position" and gave it air, pressed the lever and it worked fine. Every couple of tries though, instead of folding down and opening the poppet, it folded down then seemed to lose it's grip on the poppet and lay flat against the poppet housing. I pulled the poppet out and removed the lever. An experienced person may have noticed something installed backwards or bent but it looked OK to me. I don't recall if I tweaked the legs of the lever as it hit the poppet but I reassembled it the way it seemed to want to go (and per the book), gave it air, and it worked flawlessly.
My best guess is either the poppet was in backwards or the lever needed a slight tweak. No debris, no rotting nor any other causes typical of complaints in other online posts. I'm taking it to the shop next week so I'll find out what I can from someone with experience. Best of luck with yours!
It's been a few months since I've done it so forgive my lack of detail (or accuracy)...
Since I know the people in my LDS that would soon be doing the service I opened it up to see what the issue was. I figured worst case I take it back to them in pieces and they make fun of me. Best case I fix it then take it in and say "I fixed it, now fix it right". I had good guidance from Vance Harlow's "Scuba Regulator Maintenance and Repair" book in the meantime.
My problem seemed to be in the lever that works the poppet. I opened the front cover and the lever was laying flat against the poppet housing. I lifted it back up to a "rest position" and gave it air, pressed the lever and it worked fine. Every couple of tries though, instead of folding down and opening the poppet, it folded down then seemed to lose it's grip on the poppet and lay flat against the poppet housing. I pulled the poppet out and removed the lever. An experienced person may have noticed something installed backwards or bent but it looked OK to me. I don't recall if I tweaked the legs of the lever as it hit the poppet but I reassembled it the way it seemed to want to go (and per the book), gave it air, and it worked flawlessly.
My best guess is either the poppet was in backwards or the lever needed a slight tweak. No debris, no rotting nor any other causes typical of complaints in other online posts. I'm taking it to the shop next week so I'll find out what I can from someone with experience. Best of luck with yours!
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