Redundant buoyancy in warm weather

[danvolker]

Dan, GUE seem to have done away with 'balanced rig' as the sole method of ensuring ascent given wing failure. Am I right? I seem to be seeing 'global' use of drysuits to address an issue that was previously covered entirely by balanced rig philosophy...

I absolutely agree with you... AL80s, with AL decos, is easy. Even more so with the flexibility of sidemount. So why the change?

I would have to ask Errol K. about that....Even if they did, just because they might make an internal rule change, has no bearing to me on what I found to be safe for 4 decades.....I will continue to believe that it is not very smart to put more weight on my body than I can swim up without an elevator/wing. I can do 280 foot dives for 25 minutes with dual 80's...there is not need to stay longer..and there is no need for me to go deeper.....If there was, there is an extra al 80 stage....still no big deal for getting to the surface.

There is no problem until some dive shop sells you heavy double 100's or worse, for ocean diving...then all of a sudden, they get to sell double bladders and all manners of nonsense. Gee, I wonder if there is a pattern here?

 

[tphelps]

Just shipped my drysuit from California to where I am in Hawai'i. I have a decent amount of natural insulation and Ive been used to colder waters my whole life. When I first heard my buddy uses a drysuit in 77F water, I thought he was crazy... talk about uber wimp! But then we started doing more and more mixed gas diving. He was in his drysuit, I was still in my 3mm with lavacore vest. I was fine at bottom but staying still on deco for such a long time is what got to me. Now that we are doing more and more deep dives with 2hr+ run times, I'll definitely be diving dry.

Plus as everyone has been mentioning, its a good back up buoyancy system. But even still, i carry a lift bag. Dont think my Whites can is sufficient for me, my rebreather and 3 bottles!

 

[Kevrumbo]

I'm bookmarking this thread in case I ever actually dive tropical.
So far, it's all abstractification

Dan, GUE seem to have done away with 'balanced rig' as the sole method of ensuring ascent given wing failure. Am I right? I seem to be seeing 'global' use of drysuits to address an issue that was previously covered entirely by balanced rig philosophy...

I absolutely agree with you... AL80s, with AL decos, is easy. Even more so with the flexibility of sidemount. So why the change?

Last year Oct in Truk, I loaned an extra full skinsuit & X-shorts to a teammate who also happens to be a GUE Instructor, because his stinking useless TLS Drysuit sprung a leak. So unless you also bring patching material & a lot of Aquaseal, or even another back-up drysuit, diving dry in the tropics --and especially intensive wreck penetration diving which will certainly "hole" that drysuit-- becomes a liability & disadvantage when that drysuit assuredly begins to leak. . .period.

I'm leaving for Palau & Truk Lagoon in a week for another month of tropical reef & wreck diving, and I'm gonna tell you again from there --drysuit diving in the tropics literally & physically stinks. Add to that, this will be my fourth trip to the Truk wrecks in a years time, and there is no way a DUI 30/30 tropical drysuit --or even a TLS 350-- would have stood up to the penetration dives in backmount & sidemount that I've been doing. Economically and from a convenience sake as well, it is far easier to use as is with a puncture or tear in a 0.5mil skinsuit than it is to continually patch & repair a drysuit in the field.

That's my objective and most qualified opinion & experience, traveling out to tropical Oceania/SE Asia now for seven years running. . .

 

[victorzamora]

So....because a drysuit may not be optimal in ONE location under ONE mission for ONE diver, clearly they don't work for anybody, anywhere, anytime? Truk/Palau water must be tons warmer than the Keys. Last time I was there it was 72F. I'd hate to do a 2+ hour dive using trimix in 72F water with a skin. Also, I'm not doing any wreck penetration.....any reason why THAT shouldn't work?

 

[RJP]

All in custom-fitted, cave-cut, SANTI 'E.Lite' suits, I believe...

Tropical or not, wrap yourself in a sealed suit in the tropics and you're on a count-down towards dehydration and heat stroke. I think I read something, somewhere about dehydration and diving....
.

The eLite is certainly not a tropical suit. Far from it. It's a full-on, insulated neck, chest overlay, double-zippered "cold wate" dry suit, they are quite common here in NJ. I'd have no qualms wearing an eLite for ice diving. Wearing such a suit in the Philippines would be assinine. Perhaps those people were under the mistaken impression that eLite meant that the suit was "lite" in terms of the exposure protection it provides, like a "lite windbreaker"?

Andy, all I can tell you about your "tropical or not..." suggestion is that I have done hundreds of dives in a genuine, purpose-made tropical drysuit in warm water in hot places. I've never been too warm, I've never overheated, I've actually never really even sweated noticeably. I can't say the same fir diving in Ben a thin wetsuit in the tropics.

I do not dive dry in the tropics due to some "inflexible adherence to dogma" but rather because I am far, far more comfortable doing so than in a wetsuit - at depth, at the surface, during stops, on the boat, gearing up. Everywhere. The drysuit + undergarments is also lighter, packs smaller than a 3mm wetsuit, and is dry enough to go into my suitcase about 15min after exiting the water.

I'm not trying to convince folks that everyone should dive dry in the tropics. However, I will point out that those folks who are the most vociferous naysayers have ZERO experience diving a tropical drysuit, and therefore have no idea what you're talking about. Sort of like writing a harsh review of a restaurant you've never eaten in.

 

[victorzamora]

Well, I guess if nobody dives drysuits in Palau/Truk doing wreck penetrations then it shouldn't be an option for anybody in tropical waters, no matter what. That can't be right.

Like I've said, for other divers doing tropical dives that are not in Palau/Truk doing ONLY wreck-penetration dives......your experience isn't gospel, it's simply your experience. Are you saying nobody in NZ, Oz, FL, Caribbean, Med, Red Sea, etc should EVER dive a drysuit? What if we're NOT doing wreck penetration, what do you have against drysuits then? You're clearly being stubborn here. Especially with a longer boat ride, wetsuits are pretty miserable. The wind cuts through me and makes me suffer, even if the air temps are high and the water was warm. I was in PDC like 6 weeks ago and got chilly on the boat ride back from our site. It was 87F with high humidity, the water was 85F, I'm highly resistant to the cold, and it was a fairly short boat ride. A drysuit would've been more comfortable, period.

I'm not saying drysuits are the ONLY option, I'm just saying they're STILL an option. If you choose to dive wet, fine. If you choose to dive dry, then fine. I simply don't see anything wrong with diving dry in warmer temperatures. Another consideration IS cost. I have a drysuit that works well over a wide range of temperatures. I have a shorty suitable for very warm temperatures. If I wanted to dive well-fitting wetsuit in warm temperatures too cold for my shorty, I'd have to buy another wetsuit. That would add to the cost of diving, and is money that could go towards much more useful gear (IMHO). It's also adding to the amount of stuff I'd have to carry for diving in a range of temperatures.

 

[Diver0001]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

A couple of posts that looked set to turn into a flaming were deleted.

I rolled back all of the "punk" comments and subsequent replies to that.

Feel free to rephrase it respectfully.

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[RJP]

Well, I guess if nobody dives drysuits in Palau/Truk doing wreck penetrations then it shouldn't be an option for anybody in tropical waters, no matter what. That can't be right.

I've done 57 dry dives in Truk. I'm guessing tajkd has 25-30 or so.

So....because a drysuit may not be optimal in ONE location under ONE mission for ONE diver, clearly they don't work for anybody, anywhere, anytime? Truk/Palau water must be tons warmer than the Keys. Last time I was there it was 72F. I'd hate to do a 2+ hour dive using trimix in 72F water with a skin. Also, I'm not doing any wreck penetration.....any reason why THAT shouldn't work?

To be fair, last time I was in Truk the water was 87F

 

[TSandM]

Our local GUE group did a trip to Truk earlier this year. I think almost everybody dove dry. I didn't hear of any suit problems, and some penetration was done. (I wasn't there, so I don't know how much.) I think that, if I were intending upon some heavy-duty wreck crawling that I thought had a high likelihood of damaging my suit, I might dive wet. But I'd be VERY careful to balance my rig in that case.

 

[RJP]

I think that, if I were intending upon some heavy-duty wreck crawling that I thought had a high likelihood of damaging my suit, I might dive wet. But I'd be VERY careful to balance my rig in that case.

My drysuits (tropical and regular) have done extensive wreck penetration with no problems at all. Tropic held up phenomenally well in Truk and Red Sea wrecks.