Recommendations for DIR Regulators

[Olariuas]

To go from doubles to SM with a single set of tanks is not a quick change, unless you have a fill station right next to you. You will have to remove the isolation bar/manifold after emptying the tanks, and then put in plugs and then refill. Also, it can be fiddly to get your bands and weights etc etc perfectly trimmed out, destroying that weekly is not ideal.

Alright. Right now I still have quite few months to go before starting GUE Fundies (and switch to Doubles) until next January 2019 vacation. I do have 7 - 8 months to make some dive in Single configuration. Now if I can setup a GUE class earlier it would be better of course. But clearly if I still have like 90 bar left it kinda waste to empty the tanks to switch as Sidemount. bar after bar It will waste gas and money specially if main recreational gas is EAN32 right ?

To summarize (of course not gonna buying at the same time)
single: 1x DS4 + 2x XTX 50 ------------> will become doubles
doubles: add 1x DS4
sidemount: 2x DS4 + 2x XTX50
deco: 1x DS4 + 1x XTX50

5x DS4
5x XTX50

Do I miss a regulator backup somewhere ?
Do I need to add another 2nd stage on deco ?

As far as regs are concerned, the swivel turret first stages will make transition between SM and BM simple, the swivel is not essential for SM but does make life a lot easier. The fifth port on the bottom is not a must have for SM , but does make life a lot easier for BM doubles hose routing.

DS4 do not have 5th port and none turret
while DST do have 5th port and turret but this is another potential o-ring failure

Honestly I would pick up DS4 and avoid a potential o-ring failure. But I have no idea how look like a
DS4' hoses routing compared to a DST' hoses routing.

 

[RainPilot]

You don't need 5 first stages initially, honestly the effort to change from SM to BM doubles is minimal. The o-ring failure risk from one extra port on a first stage is seriously negligible. I personally don't know anyone that is really concerned about it. As far as hose routing is concerned, a DS4 will be fine for BM and usable for SM but I personally find a non-swivel SM reg to be super irritating.

If I were in your position I would get the following in order (assumes BM single, BM double, SM, tech diving progression):

1. Backplate and singles wing
2. 2x 1st stages and 2x second stages, 1x SPG (with long HP hose), 1x long reg hose, 1x short reg hose, 2x inflator hoses (BCD and DS) These will configure as BM single with spare 1st stage in case of issues, later BM doubles.
3. Doubles wing
   
4. 1x SPG and 2x 6" HP hoses (this will become SM gear and/or for configuring a stage with BM doubles)
5. SM harness and wing
   
6. 1x first and second stage deco reg (does not need to be expensive, simple unbalanced is often preferable).
7. Repeat no 6 until you have enough for all the tanks you might be carrying.

There will be some extra hoses etc in between all of this, as you refine your diving style etc but these are not a big expense.

 

[Olariuas]

How frequent is to have a DST' o-ring failure ?
How to prevent it except to buy a non-turret reg ?

If I were in your position I would get the following in order (assumes BM single, BM double, SM, tech diving progression):

1. Backplate and singles wing
2. 2x 1st stages and 2x second stages, 1x SPG (with long HP hose), 1x long reg hose, 1x short reg hose, 2x inflator hoses (BCD and DS) These will configure as BM single with spare 1st stage in case of issues, later BM doubles.
3. Doubles wing
   
4. 1x SPG and 2x 6" HP hoses (this will become SM gear and/or for configuring a stage with BM doubles)
5. SM harness and wing
   
6. 1x first and second stage deco reg (does not need to be expensive, simple unbalanced is often preferable).
7. Repeat no 6 until you have enough for all the tanks you might be carrying.

Alright I understand. Thanks so much for that !

I was thinking that earlier Sidemount training (IANTD Open Water Sidemount Diver Specialty) are interesting specially if Technical / Cave diving are a next certain steps.
Now as I read everywhere that instructor matter more than agency I will search a bit more to found somone who is an expert fulltime in sidemounting and located in Europe.

Cause I am reading this:
Fixing The Sidemount Training Disappointment
and other google result with 'sidemount bad training' keywords.



About 6- Do you have some suggestions about less expensive stage/deco regs ?

 

[AJ]

Sidemount is easy when you're skilled in backmount because the cilinders hang right next to you instead of having the on your back. It's more stable. I would recommend to first train backmount and become skilled at a high level. There are very few caves (you won't be diving as a novice anyway) that require sidemount. Sidemount is fun, but it's hardly necessary until expoloration cave diving.

Changing cilinders between doubles backmount and sidemount is a pain in the a$$. Don't recommend it. Changing regs is no big deal. Just swapping some hoses.

 

[RainPilot]

About 6- Do you have some suggestions about less expensive stage/deco regs ?

I like these but there are many variations: https://www.amazon.com/Dive-Rite-O2-Deco-Regulator/dp/B00HZZ64Z8
You might want to have a look at Mares as well, depending on whether you can get them serviced at your LDS, not usually a problem in Europe. Their XR range seem to be quite decent value for money. (Links are not cheapest place, just so you can see what I mean)

Mares XR R2S-VR - Lucas Divestore for a deco/stage reg
Mares XR CR tek set - Lucas Divestore for backgas

 

[Olariuas]

Sidemount is easy when you're skilled in backmount because the cilinders hang right next to you instead of having the on your back. It's more stable. I would recommend to first train backmount and become skilled at a high level. There are very few caves (you won't be diving as a novice anyway) that require sidemount. Sidemount is fun, but it's hardly necessary until expoloration cave diving.

Changing cilinders between doubles backmount and sidemount is a pain in the a$$. Don't recommend it. Changing regs is no big deal. Just swapping some hoses.

Could you 'define' skilled at a high level ? Even if I might know the definition. Do you suggest to go head into technical diving under Trimix courses ?
I know there are minimum and for sure I won't attend to have specific number just because it's a minimum requierement.

This is why I would like to stay a bit longer in Single /Recreational diving. I still have to include DIR configuration and be trained for it.
There are still so much to learn in a 30 msw range like EAN courses / photography / marine biology / improve my gas consommation-management / night diving etc
for sure I am clearly not into a rush mode.

I like these but there are many variations: Amazon.com : Dive Rite O2 Deco Regulator : Sports & Outdoors
You might want to have a look at Mares as well, depending on whether you can get them serviced at your LDS, not usually a problem in Europe. Their XR range seem to be quite decent value for money. (Links are not cheapest place, just so you can see what I mean)

Mares XR R2S-VR - Lucas Divestore for a deco/stage reg
Mares XR CR tek set - Lucas Divestore for backgas

Alright - I will look into Dive Rite / Mares brands
I have found Tecline too (if you have some opinions about it) but it's few $$ more than Dive Rite
In any case I must look below US$ 300 for a less expensive stage/deco O2clean regulators + normal SPGs


Dive Rite O2 DECO Regulator $219
(with a miniSPG) dunno if I can remove the mini to put a normal one. or if the mini are decent use.

http://www.frogkickdiving.com/deco-regulator.html

 

[AJ]

Could you 'define' skilled at a high level ? Even if I might know the definition. Do you suggest to go head into technical diving under Trimix courses ?
I know there are minimum and for sure I won't attend to have specific number just because it's a minimum requierement.

Skilled means to me: diving has become second nature. You dont have to think about kicks (even back kick), awareness, navigation, etc. You can deploy an SMB and do air share drills simultaneously keeping your depth and maintaining team position without ever touching the bottom or making dust. Also being able to hover while doing a stop and maintaining team position is natural to you. Doing these skills with your knees on the bottom is of course not allowed anytime anywhere!

It's not about equipment, it's about not even having to think about diving, as diving has become second nature. Very few recreational divers aquire this level of skill. At least not that I'am aware having dived well over 100 diferent buddys. For tech divers this is natural and for them it's minimal skill level.[/QUOTE]

Do you suggest to go head into technical diving under Trimix courses ?
I know there are minimum and for sure I won't attend to have specific number just because it's a minimum requierement.

This is why I would like to stay a bit longer in Single /Recreational diving. I still have to include DIR configuration and be trained for it.
There are still so much to learn in a 30 msw range like EAN courses / photography / marine biology / improve my gas consommation-management / night diving etc
for sure I am clearly not into a rush mode.

What I'am suggesting is: dive like you're diving a tech dive every dive. It will make transition so much easier if you ever decide to go tech. In the mean time having great skills means your dives will be much more pleasant and you will enjoy your dives much much more. At least I did after my GUE Fundamentals training It seems to me you are on the right track. Don't rush things, enjoy the learning experience and extend your skills and experience gradually.

 

[Olariuas]

After reading your post I must clearly go into a DIR philosophy and match with GUE courses (and IANTD/TDI) ASAP Im kinda afraid indeed to learn bad habits/methods and feel difficult to learn new skills who will clearly be better.

Now I am open-minded and eager to learn anything from trustable sources.

Would it be 'cheaper' that I buy service tools and service myself regulators / tanks / valves and other gear?

 

[Bottom Surveyor]

I honestly wouldn't worry about the o-ring on a DST as being "yet another potential failure point".
Yes, theoretically it is possible (anything can fail if not maintained/serviced properly). But we're probably talking here about a negligible risk.
Let's not forget that the SP MK25 is also a turret, yet you never hear the same "potential failure point" stories perpetuated about it.

What's more, WKPP guys (and gals) have dived the MK-25 almost exclusively on their longest exploration and penetration dives (unless the length of time underwater required a CCR).

I have honestly never met or heard of anyone who has experienced an o-ring failure on their DST. Just take good care of it and don't skimp on a service when it's needed.
But the turret will in some instances (especally when setting up a sidemount rig make your life that little bit easier, as will the existence of the 5th port.

To each his own but, for me, it's a negligible "risk" which is more than compensated for by the benefits it offers.

 

[rhwestfall]

Dive Rite O2 DECO Regulator $219
(with a miniSPG) dunno if I can remove the mini to put a normal one. or if the mini are decent use.

on deco bottles, buttons are fine.