Rec diving philosophies? (vs. tec DIR/Hogarthian/etc...)

[FritzCat66]

Actually, I best love diving as a teammate with a photographer.

Sure - I'm not saying solo is the only way to do photography, just that it's preferred by some of us.

As someone who likes to take pictures, I do both solo and team diving. Sometimes I'll dive as a team of three ... all with cameras ... and not have any issues with keeping the team together. This is generally true even when diving in low-visibility conditions.

True - when I'm diving with others, I enjoy it most when they are other very independent divers used to doing their own thing, like photo/video divers, but also bug-catchers and spearos. "Same ocean, same day" really works for me.

There are techniques ... and it starts with a team attitude on the part of all the divers.

That's the crux of the "philosophy" issue. Techniques are techniques, and we can all learn new ones to be better divers, more efficient with our gas and resources, and less damaging to our environment. But for some of us, diving is a respite from dealing with all the humanity and monkey chatter in our normal life, therefore any philosophy predicated on the concept of team diving is utterly and completely antithetical to what we want out of diving.

Analogy: Among religious folk (not that I am one), it seems the majority prefer to worship at a church or in some organized social manner, which is fine. But some prefer monastic isolation, contemplating the mysteries unclouded by interaction with our fellow homo sapiens. I'm definitely in that latter category: the reef is my metaphorical altar, and I prefer to worship in as much solitude as possible.

To each their own, but in any discussion such as this about recreational dive philosophies, in amongst all the usual DIR and GUE and UTD advocates, I think it's worth at least mentioning that some of us have a fundamentally differing attitude in that we're not the least bit interested in any kind of diving involving any kind of team - or even a single buddy if we can avoid it.

They may claim we're "missing something" . I don't know about that and I don't pretend to tell others what they are or aren't "missing" about their dive experience. Analogically, I'm sure the church-goers think the monk is "missing something" as well, yet I think the monk is actually quite happy "missing" that social experience - in fact, I think that's part of the monk's whole point. I presume we're all pursuing diving for our own purposes and ultimately prefer a laissez faire attitude towards my fellow scuba enthusiasts. I think I'm getting exactly what I want out of it sans team, and I know there are some others who feel likewise.

 

[DaleC]

Well spoken.

I also think that it sometimes comes down to choosing to do what "you want" vs doing what "others want".

I am a pretty social diver and always enjoy other peoples company but a lot of times other divers aren't available (weekday diving) or don't want to do the dives I do. I often post when I'm heading out for a fish observation dive and the response is hit or miss. I also like to dive vintage and (so far) no one else around me wants to do that.


Any takers?

I could spend all my time trying to find or convince some other diver to join me or to adopt my style so we could be a "team" but I would rather just go and accomplish my goals. If someones there, fine; if not, fine. I can always socialize during the SI or some other time.

 

[TSandM]

FritzCat, I agree -- everybody has to find a way of diving that works for THEM. The OP had made some comments that made a lot of us think that he might enjoy the team diving approach, and his subsequent posts indicate that he explored some information and did, indeed, find it interesting.

 

[LenC]

I have to agree with the last few posts. Even in a team environment, diving is a personal experience and one size does not fit all. People should do what pleases them (assuming unsafe diving practices is not what pleases them). For my part, I spend a lot of time in the water with students or leading dives. On my own time, I would as soon be alone.

 

[lamont]

Unless you and some randomly chosen class mates are all Wunderkinder that can nail the team coherence - which depends on each member's buoyancy and trim skills - in one day you are wasting your time and money in Fundies. Trust me, I just did.

I doubt it was a complete waste of your time and money.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

Isn't that sort of the idea behind the primer variant of fundamentals, you are not graded by what your buddy does or doesn't do?
It just focuses on individual skills?

-Mitch

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Sure - I'm not saying solo is the only way to do photography, just that it's preferred by some of us.

True - when I'm diving with others, I enjoy it most when they are other very independent divers used to doing their own thing, like photo/video divers, but also bug-catchers and spearos. "Same ocean, same day" really works for me.

That's the crux of the "philosophy" issue. Techniques are techniques, and we can all learn new ones to be better divers, more efficient with our gas and resources, and less damaging to our environment. But for some of us, diving is a respite from dealing with all the humanity and monkey chatter in our normal life, therefore any philosophy predicated on the concept of team diving is utterly and completely antithetical to what we want out of diving.

Analogy: Among religious folk (not that I am one), it seems the majority prefer to worship at a church or in some organized social manner, which is fine. But some prefer monastic isolation, contemplating the mysteries unclouded by interaction with our fellow homo sapiens. I'm definitely in that latter category: the reef is my metaphorical altar, and I prefer to worship in as much solitude as possible.

To each their own, but in any discussion such as this about recreational dive philosophies, in amongst all the usual DIR and GUE and UTD advocates, I think it's worth at least mentioning that some of us have a fundamentally differing attitude in that we're not the least bit interested in any kind of diving involving any kind of team - or even a single buddy if we can avoid it.

They may claim we're "missing something" . I don't know about that and I don't pretend to tell others what they are or aren't "missing" about their dive experience. Analogically, I'm sure the church-goers think the monk is "missing something" as well, yet I think the monk is actually quite happy "missing" that social experience - in fact, I think that's part of the monk's whole point. I presume we're all pursuing diving for our own purposes and ultimately prefer a laissez faire attitude towards my fellow scuba enthusiasts. I think I'm getting exactly what I want out of it sans team, and I know there are some others who feel likewise.

As the saying goes, there's more'n one way to skin a catfish ... the key thing is to decide what makes you happy, and then figure out how to do it in a way that doesn't endanger yourself and others.

When I first started solo diving, I expected to get some flack from my friends. Oddly, it came more from the recreationally trained friends than the tech trained ones. I find that the longer I dive, the more tolerant I become of those who don't dive like me ... I think that's true of most people ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[kathydee]

Hi Dack,

Your in luck to have "Antihero" so close by and such a large community of GUE divers in Monterey and San Fran: BAUE Home Page

Many divers have to travel long distances and at great expense to take the GUE classes but we are in the envyable position of having 3 local instructors and a huge community! So you can just take Fundies early in your dive career then dive with our community to cement skills.

As others have said the GUE system works well for both tech and rec diving. It is very useful in our low vis enviroment. Here's a short video which shows both the rec & tech aspects of GUE .

YouTube - GUE video

Seems like I'm off to a good start, I've put my $$$ into a quality reg and a back inflating BC. Those should hold me for a few years once I get it setup the way I like it.

I loved my back inflate BCD, but it was listed on the classified after the first trial with a Bp/w. I was instantly amazed by the simplicity of the Hog system. Incredibly streamline, everything just where I need it and nothing in the way or dangling.

Well if you want to do Fundies there's a class starting soon.

Class details | Global Underwater Explorers

That's a great call Ben but might be a hustle to get ready for a class which starts this Friday ! Local Fundies classes are scheduled every 3 months. This class will have two Fundies instructors and I'm pretty sure the students are all recreational divers. There should still be a space. Just contact "rhlee" on scubaboard for more info about our local classes.

If you plan to move towards GUE, it's best to chat with the instructor before making equipment purchases. They are happy to offer equipment advice.

Hope to see you around

 

[Peter Guy]

Fritz (and others) -- My comment about team diving and photography was made from the standpoint of the photographer -- NOT from the standpoint of a "team diver." I like to think I am a photographer -- I really enjoy taking pictures, playing with the image, finding the right angle, etc. What I find, and what I was trying to describe, is that IF the goal of the team is to help you, the photographer, maximize the picture taking, team diving can work very well for photography.

The rest of the team is YOUR helper which means they can be another pair of critter searching eyes (you know, while you are focusing on the image in front of you and that ray comes up behind you!); they can be a model (lots of WA pictures need models to get scale and personality) and you get to direct them; they can even carry gear for you (a friend has his teammate carry a 2nd camera so that he has Macro and WA on every dive).

I'm NOT saying this is the only way to do photography -- but what I am saying is that having the right team can make for a wonderful photographic dive. The team has to be a team however, not just various people diving together.

 

[TSandM]

Originally Posted by Lobzilla
Unless you and some randomly chosen class mates are all Wunderkinder that can nail the team coherence - which depends on each member's buoyancy and trim skills - in one day you are wasting your time and money in Fundies. Trust me, I just did.

I talked to a couple of you, and it was clear that trying to form a good, cohesive team was a challenge for everybody. For some folks, it apparently really didn't happen during the class . . . but did you feel that, on the fun dives of the weekend, you were no better at it than you were when you arrived in Florida? I would be surprised if that were true.

One of the things the class does is point out areas of weakness. It is not always possible to repair them in the time frame available (and it doesn't matter if we are talking about Fundies or Cave 2 here) but one should leave with a clear idea of what requires improvement, and how to go about improving it. It's true that team skills are harder to practice without a team -- but if you dive with a buddy, you can always work on better communication, work on your own positioning, work on your own awareness, and I would think most buddies would recognize that working on good buoyancy control on ascents and descents is worthwhile.

I said in Florida, and I will say it again: The class was a waste of money only if you think it was. If you take home lessons and put them to work, it will not have been a waste of anything.