RAID vs SDI vs GUE vs...

[SpeedyJ]

It's mostly Dr Evil (Doctor Ben he's called I think?) and people like that. The front-faces of the 'brand' GUE that annoy me. I am sure their courses are great in terms of quality. I just don't feel like signing up because they don't seem to be happy to be diving... So - with me at least - they have very ineffective marketing that gets them 1-0 down.

No clue who Dr Ben is - might be more of a European presence.
There are TDI instructors/divers I dislike. There are PADI instructors/divers I dislike. There are PSAI instructors/divers I dislike. And there are GUE instructors/divers I dislike. I don't fault the agency for the fact that I don't like these people - especially when there are many other amazing people that I do like associated with each agency.

I regularly see comparisons of TDI Intro to Tech to GUE Fundamentals and while they may look similar on paper, having taken both, Intro to Tech was nowhere near the class that Fundamentals was. In my small group of diving friends I know of multiple TDI instructors who didn't earn technical endorsements on their first attempt at GUE Fundamentals (and remember, thats GUE's Pre-req - not their instructor standards!) And of those who took the class, all but maybe one (bruised ego) would say it was one of the best classes they've taken and wholeheartedly recommend it to others.

Personally, I'd be jumping at the opportunity to take a course with JP Bresser @ Scuba Academie!

 

[Cheizz]

On the Scuba Academie website, it says this about configuration for TDI Intro to Tech:

Double 12 + wing (no bungee)
Double regulator set with long hose setup
Spool + SMB
Reel (on loan if needed)
Drysuit
Canister light + backup light
Wetnotes
Mask + backup
Compass + Bottom timer/computer
Sturdy fins

I couldn't find any specific configuration requirements om the TDI website.

 

[SpeedyJ]

I'm curious about this. In past discussions about GUE on the forum, one issue that's come up regarding GUE Fundamentals is their required gear configuration. It's not just that they require BP/W, but stipulate what sort of harness (e.g.: it was my understanding my Hollis deluxe harness wouldn't meet their criteria).

I went to confirm just now, and interestingly, I see what used to be called GUE Primer is now GUE Fundamentals Part I per Wet Rocks Diving (here's the page); I then went to GUE's website and opened their general training standards, procedures and policies document and dropped down to page 28 and onward (the portion dealing with GUE Fundamentals).

It says applicants for GUE 1 have to be non-smokers have the GUE base equipment configuration. On page 117:

"Backplate system:

1. Is held to the diver by one continuous piece of webbing. This webbing is
   adjustable and uses a buckle to secure the system at the waist."

So, do the other options besides GUE have the same, or functionally equivalent, gear setup demands for people taking their courses? Do they care whether your harness is a single continuous piece of webbing or one of the deluxe type harnesses?

I know of other instructors who have adopted this standard even though it is not called out by the agency they certify through. I'm amazed what a roadblock a $45 piece of webbing is to people when taking a $750 - $1000 class. I've seen plenty of people move from "deluxe" harnesses to properly fitted single piece harnesses, but cant think of any doing the opposite.

 

[Cheizz]

Personally, I'd be jumping at the opportunity to take a course with JP Bresser @ Scuba Academie!

He is mostly doing the very advanced stuff I think. I don't count on getting him personally as an instructor for the courses I'm looking at.

 

[SpeedyJ]

He is mostly doing the very advanced stuff I think. I don't count on getting him personally as an instructor for the courses I'm looking at.

He's teaching Fundies in April, June, and October according to the GUE website. Might be worth a call.

Class details

www.gue.com

 

[Lorenzoid]

On the subject of GUE's objection to fancy harnesses, keep in mind that the gear requirements are for during the course. Why not learn the basics (or "fundamentals") while using the most basic gear setup there is? As @wetb4igetinthewater pointed out in post #17, after the course, you are free to adopt whatever gear you wish. If you didn't like the simple harness, BP/W, and whatever else you used during the course, then after the course by all means feel free to try a fancy harness and see if you prefer that. Your now-former Fundies instructor will not care if you didn't adopt everything that was covered in the course. Nobody tracks you down to see if you're still diving the GUE way or have gone on to try something else. Also, if you already own a fancy harness or some other gear item that doesn't fit GUE's requirements, your instructor will be glad to help you rent or maybe even loan you any of the required gear items for use during the course.

On the first day of Fundamentals, one of the first things the instructor does (or at least they used to do this) is have students lay out all their gear on the floor, and the instructor notes anything that needs to be changed for purposes of the course. One of my classmates in my original Fundies course was a woman who remarked that she liked everything about the GUE gear configuration "except that long-hose thing" (I quote verbatim, and this was over 8 years ago!), and despite knowing GUE did not care for her standard-length primary hose she brought it to class. The instructor discussed a few things about why we use the long hose and then helped her change out that hose and otherwise configure her reg set. Our instructor seemed to me to be quite understanding that some students will inevitably show up for the course with reservations about GUE or the GUE gear configuration, having heard negative things or being resistant to changing something. It's fine. It's just a course.

 

[Cheizz]

The gear requirements are not an issue for me by the way. Most of it I already own. Or it's on the shopping list anyway (2x12, 40 lb wing, canister light).

 

[drrich2]

I know of other instructors who have adopted this standard even though it is not called out by the agency they certify through. I'm amazed what a roadblock a $45 piece of webbing is to people when taking a $750 - $1000 class.

On the subject of GUE's objection to fancy harnesses, keep in mind that the gear requirements are for during the course. Why not learn the basics (or "fundamentals") while using the most basic gear setup there is?

If I were looking into it, the issue wouldn't be the $45. I bought my BP/W setup through a dive shop so one of their staff would set it up for me, especially threading the harness through the backplate. I stood there and watched him do it, a guy familiar with these things.

It took quite awhile. And even then, he explained I'd likely need to make little adjustments over time to get it dialed in.

I'm not 'handy' or intuitive. The thought of somebody taking my current harness off my backplate and leaving it for me the fix is horrifying.

---

Any idea what GUE's objection to the 'fancy' harnesses is? I'm glad something more basic is fine, but what problem does a deluxe harness cause?

 

[barth]

It would be better to talk to real divers at divespots in the Netherlands and ask their opinion, then ask for advice at scubaboard.

The name(s) of GUE instructors people are promoting in this thread are not the same at the names I hear at the divespots or my buddies are telling me.

Every (GUE) instructor has pros and cons. Here I only hear pros about the same (GUE) instructors… At the divespots you also hear cons…

I don’t want to post cons about instructor(s), if you want more and/or better information it would require more effort.

If I was you I would start with GUE, with GUE fundamentals it would be easier to find buddies and join projects…

 

[Lorenzoid]

Any idea what GUE's objection to the 'fancy' harnesses is? I'm glad something more basic is fine, but what problem does a deluxe harness cause?

I don't know with certainty. My guess would be they might take the position that plastic buckles are susceptible to breakage or come undone when you don't want them to, and padded harnesses might add unnecessary buoyancy. I think most people would agree that the "potential failure points" thing is blown out of proportion to how often any of it really fails, and if we're talking open-water recreational divers the consequences of such things breaking are hardly severe. Nevertheless, I try to keep in mind that GUE's standard or base configuration is the way it is so that it's the same for beginner divers all the way up through exploration team members. Granted, exceedingly few people who decide to take Fundies to improve their OW diving and maybe with an eye toward getting into tech go all the way up the training/experience ladder to become involved in exploration or conservation projects. But it's my understanding that GUE does what they do with an aim to enable anyone to get onto that ladder if they desire to. GUE is involved in exploration and conservation projects, and maybe they're wise to try their best to generate a pool of qualified divers from which they can attract people to projects in the future. A "Who we are" web page contains this mission statement: "Global Underwater Explorers is building global communities of passionate divers, empowered by high-quality training and organized to support wide-ranging diving activities. These communities contain and partner with dedicated explorers, conservationists and scientific researchers to conduct a diversity of aquatic initiatives around the world."

I sure don't want to be seen as a fanboy. I have taken courses from non-GUE instructors, and I might again in the future. I do believe GUE holds their instructors to high quality control standards, though. There are great instructors affiliated with all agencies, but I believe with GUE you can be fairly well assured your instruction will be high quality; whether you get the most out of it that you could comes down more to whether your personality and learning style meshes well with the instructor's personality and teaching style.