Questions about adopting rec diving practices to DIR/Hog gear

[Rob9000]

I am considering a backplate BC. Some questions about how some of the things I learned in Rescue and Divemaster courses apply to Hogarthian-style gear...specifically looking at the Halcyon BC:
- Ditch-able weights - As part of gear removal on the surface in an emergency, the PADI routine is to remove weights as part of establishing buoyancy before going on to determine if removing the BC is necessary. It sounds like having some ditch-able weights on the front of the BC is an option in DIR, but it sounds like some people try to not have any weights in pockets in the front by using extra heavy backplates, tank strap weights, etc. How does a BP/W BC map to this type of rec training?

- Quick release buckles - I like having the ability to loosen straps and/or use quick release when taking off my BC....like when I am getting on the boat when I have to go pee or feel a bit seasick...and on a crowded boat. It seems a single-piece webbing BC is harder to get in to and out of. I can see quick release buckles being a point of failure for a tech diver having tanks slung under arm and such, but are quick release buckles that much of a point of failure for someone using a BP/W in single tank rec diving conditions? I see some harnesses (Dive Rite, etc.) have quick releases.

- In-water BC remove and replace - Without being able to loosen the straps, can I do the u/w remove and replace and surface remove and replace of the BC the same way I have been trained so far (i.e. u/w is take off and put on like a backpack, with the removal motion being to pull the BC around me to get the straps off and on....surface donning procedure is kind of sit on tank and put both arms back and through and let the BC slide up on me).

- Emergency BC removal on the surface - I would think that with a single webbing BC, cutting off the BC is the fastest way to get it off of an unconscious diver on the surface. My rescue and DM classes didn't teach cutting as the primary method to use. So if I am diving with others who do not have a BP/W, then is there a safety issue for me in case I get in trouble and they can't get my gear off. I would always brief by buddy on my gear, but what if someone else needs to help me?

 

[Belmont]

I have been using a BP/W for my last 10 dives. One thing I can say is that, for me, it is much more easy to don and doff, particularly in the water.
I had problems with the padding on my previous BC and also if you compare both rigs the opening for the arms is larger with the wing. I have some problem with flexibility in the shoulders. Also, FWIW, I canceled a dive one day because of a broken plastic clip on my rental vest.

As far as weighting, I use a single tank adapter with an integrated 6 lb weight plus my SS back plate at 6 lbs. If needed I can put weight pockets on the belt part of the webbing. It's something that can be removed depending on the configuration of "buoyant" equipment I carry, such as wet suit or aluminium tank, USW.

It is easy to figure that your rescuers would only have to cut two shoulder belts to free you from your rig, no big deal there.

 

[Jimmer]

In water don and doff is a breeze. When we stop at a shallow dive site on the way back from a deep dive, I'll toss mine overboard with twin LP108's and don it in water just to get off the boat faster. Like Belmont said, just cut the shoulder straps in an emergency. Also if it fits right, you can USUALLY just grab the shoulder D rings and slip them to the sides and over the shoulders. As for ditchable weights, not everyone dives without a belt when in a BP/W. Depending on what tank(s) and exposure suit I'm wearing, I might be wearing a fair bit of lead on a conventional weightbelt.

 

[Quarrior]

specifically looking at the Halcyon BC:
- Ditch-able weights -

- Quick release buckles -

- In-water BC remove and replace -

- Emergency BC removal on the surface -

I'll address each.

First, take a look at what Deep Sea Supply has. Tobin's plates are far superior to the Halcyon or the Dive Rite. Here's the link, www.deepseasupply.com

Ditchable weights - Check out the weight pockets that go on the waist belt. I know the Dive Rite ones are great because I use them when I don't have enough weight on. Personally I prefer to dive with the least amount of weight as possible.

Quick release buckles just get in the way and limit your adjustability of the harness. I had them on my first harness, finally got tired of messing with it and just went for a standard one piece harness.

In water doff and don is a piece of cake. Just practice like you did with a regular BC.

Emergency removal, don't worry about it. The diver(s) helping you will get you out of your rig one way or the other.

 

[Rob9000]

I'll address each.

First, take a look at what Deep Sea Supply has. Tobin's plates are far superior to the Halcyon or the Dive Rite. Here's the link, www.deepseasupply.com

Ditchable weights - Check out the weight pockets that go on the waist belt. I know the Dive Rite ones are great because I use them when I don't have enough weight on. Personally I prefer to dive with the least amount of weight as possible.

Quick release buckles just get in the way and limit your adjustability of the harness. I had them on my first harness, finally got tired of messing with it and just went for a standard one piece harness.

In water doff and don is a piece of cake. Just practice like you did with a regular BC.

Emergency removal, don't worry about it. The diver(s) helping you will get you out of your rig one way or the other.

Thanks for that link - I am 6'4" and I see they make a long plate.

 

[Jim Baldwin]

I am considering a backplate BC. Some questions about how some of the things I learned in Rescue and Divemaster courses apply to Hogarthian-style gear...specifically looking at the Halcyon BC:
- Ditch-able weights - As part of gear removal on the surface in an emergency, the PADI routine is to remove weights as part of establishing buoyancy before going on to determine if removing the BC is necessary. It sounds like having some ditch-able weights on the front of the BC is an option in DIR, but it sounds like some people try to not have any weights in pockets in the front by using extra heavy backplates, tank strap weights, etc. How does a BP/W BC map to this type of rec training?

- Quick release buckles - I like having the ability to loosen straps and/or use quick release when taking off my BC....like when I am getting on the boat when I have to go pee or feel a bit seasick...and on a crowded boat. It seems a single-piece webbing BC is harder to get in to and out of. I can see quick release buckles being a point of failure for a tech diver having tanks slung under arm and such, but are quick release buckles that much of a point of failure for someone using a BP/W in single tank rec diving conditions? I see some harnesses (Dive Rite, etc.) have quick releases.

- In-water BC remove and replace - Without being able to loosen the straps, can I do the u/w remove and replace and surface remove and replace of the BC the same way I have been trained so far (i.e. u/w is take off and put on like a backpack, with the removal motion being to pull the BC around me to get the straps off and on....surface donning procedure is kind of sit on tank and put both arms back and through and let the BC slide up on me).

- Emergency BC removal on the surface - I would think that with a single webbing BC, cutting off the BC is the fastest way to get it off of an unconscious diver on the surface. My rescue and DM classes didn't teach cutting as the primary method to use. So if I am diving with others who do not have a BP/W, then is there a safety issue for me in case I get in trouble and they can't get my gear off. I would always brief by buddy on my gear, but what if someone else needs to help me?

I have been diving BP/W for a number of years. I have two for single tanks and one for twins. I also have a Scuba Pro Knighthawk and a Black Diamond both of which I teach in.

The bp/w when properly adjusted will allow you get in and out of it in just a few seconds. There is nothing to snap, pull or adjust. You just put the crotch strap throuh the belt, pull snug and close the buckle. It's that simple. You will find that it actually fits a little looser than a BCD that has to be snug to actually stay in place.

When I dive wet I wear a 3mm suit and use a DR plastic plate, a single tank adapter and use a steel tank. At 15 feet I can do a good safety stop with no air in my wing. So I don't need any extra weight. I can swim this rig to the surface with virtually no effort.

When I'm diving dry I use a SS plate a STA and I wear 8 lbs on a weight belt.

Forget about the quick release buckles as they are something that simply gets in the way and will eventually break. If you're doing a (BCD) BP/W removal and replacement on the surface it is actually easier since you don't have to find a cumberbund, chest snap and other buckles.

Once you become familiar with how a hog rig works you should be able to get it off of someone else pretty quick. If the person has the rig adjusted too tight and you can't remove the arms then cutting become an option.

However, if it's properly adjusted you should be able to remove it quicker than trying to grab your knife and cut through three straps.

If you are diving with others that have never seen a bp/w take a few seconds and show them how to remove it in case they need to assist you. This would also be a good time to also look at their setup and see where all the snaps and buckles are located on their rigs as well.

 

[TSandM]

It's actually quite easy to remove a BP/W setup from a diver floating at the surface. Release the waist and crotch straps, pull the diver's arms up over his head, and pull the rig off his arms. (Helps to let a little air out of the wing, and puff up the drysuit, so rig and diver aren't as closely applied to one another.) All you have to do is tell the people you dive with how to do this, and that, if they run into trouble, they can cut the harness with the knife at your belt.

Lots of weight options are available for BP/W's, from weight plates or camband weights to integrated weight pockets that thread onto the waist strap, to a plain old traditional weight belt. You can set up what works for you in terms of weight, trim, and what you feel necessary to be able to ditch. For some people, with minimal or no exposure protection, no additional weight is needed; that person has the option of using a lighter plate and a small weight belt, or accepting the lack of ditchable.

A single piece harness takes a little bit of getting used to, but frankly, with a wetsuit, I think it's just as easy to get on and off as a BC, and I like not having to tug on straps to get it cinched down around me. I've had a couple of buddies who have started out with quick releases, but it's hard to find the right place to put them, where they don't interfere with anything but you can still reach them, and everybody has given up and gone to the continuous harness eventually.