Question about weighting in a thick suit

[elan]

Way too much weight..At 5'6"- 160 lbs you should be able to dive in a 5mm with no more than 12lbs of leads with a alum tank.In a 7mm suit you should wear around 16-18lbs.and that is for salt water..Steel tank less lead..I am 5'11" and 170 and use 6lbs in a 3 mm suit and 10lb in a 5mm..that is in salt water.Less lead in fresh water.

I used 14 lb in 4 mil suit during my last trip to Miami. That was the abs minimum as i had to duck underwater to submerge and was breathing on the bottom of my lungs at the stop with near empty tank
Im 190lb 6' not that much different from you

 

[TexasKaren68]

If you're anything like me, you are going to LOVE diving with your own BC vs. a rental (or, shall I say, a variety of rentals - ugh!). I was sooooo happy when I got my own.

I got curious, so I looked up the lift for the Hera. It varies by size, as follows:

X-Small =19 lbs.
Small = 26 lbs.
Medium = 34 lbs.
Large = 40 lbs.

So, depending on what size you have, it still might be worth a quick calculation so that you don't end up with a rig that won't float (without you in it) at the surface. Not like I'm saying there is a crisis or anything, but why not calculate in advance.

I'd be thinking as follows:

Reg: -1#
Tank: -1.4# (full AL80)
Weights: -25# (if you use this much)

So that would be close to 28#, which might be a bit heavy if you have an X-small or a Small Hera. Of course the Hera may have some inherent buoyancy which would offset this, and chances are you may have a medium anyway, but I'm just mentioning it because apparently the Hera is unlike the other vest BC's mentioned that all have like 40# of lift. It would probably be more "worth" calculating if you were using a more-negative tank.

It sounds like you plan to use a weight belt anyway, and those weights won't count "against" the BC lift, so this is likely a non-issue (as you can tell I just like to calculate things )

I checked - I have a medium size so 34 pounds of lift. The info at Oceanic's website says I can put 20 pounds in the weight pockets and 10 in the trim pockets for a maximum of 30 in the BC (hopefully I won't ever need that much).

I just weighed my BC. With 7 pounds in each integrated weight pocket, 2 pounds in each trim pocket (total weight 18 pounds) and my 15 oz dive light in one pocket (it barely fit in there), my BC weighed 27.3 pounds. Add to that the weight of a full tank and it's no wonder I had back/shoulder pain for days after my OW dives. It wasn't as bad after the Hawaii dives because I didn't have to walk as far with all the weight on.

I also discovered that getting the 5 pound soft weights wouldn't be such a good idea. It was very difficult to cram the weight pockets back into the BC with the fat four pound weights. I know I'd never be able to get it back in if I was in the water and everything was soaking wet. That was one task I never could quite get during OW training. I struggled to put an 18 pound weight belt back on in Cozumel (but I did it) but while I could push the weight pockets into my rental BC here in the river I couldn't get it that last inch or so, in order to click it into place. My instructor almost always had to help me and if too much air was in the BC, forget it. I think I did it once all by myself

I'll discuss with my instructor how to divide up the weight between a belt and the BC. When I'm in a 3mm shorty I should be able to put it all in the BC.

 

[Cixelsyd]

I used 14 lb in 4 mil suit during my last trip to Miami. That was the abs minimum as i had to duck underwater to submerge and was breathing on the bottom of my lungs at the stop with near empty tank
Im 190lb 6' not that much different from you

This is similar to me. I'm 190 and 6'2''. I dove earlier this month in Key West in a 5mm suit and needed 16 lbs. as a minimum. The second day, I added 2 more lbs., because the dives were all pretty shallow and I didn't like the feeling of being right on the edge of having to fight to stay down.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Not trying to be a "weight nazi"...

....Much safer way to dive for recreational divers. There is no magic # of lbs you may need.Just discover what you need and be carefull not to overweigh yourself.

Well, let's say two new recreational divers are diving as buddies at an open water site where recreational boaters also recreate. They are diving from a boat, so the dive flag is flying from the boat and the descend/ascend is supposed to be "near" the boat they are diving from.

Both of these new divers have had a similar refresher/ppb dive as you describe, getting totally relaxed and trimmed to find their absolute minimum weight necessary for a SS 15' deep with 500 psi AL80.

Now, on this OW dive, one of the divers goes OOA at depth. They survive the initial panic to begin the sharing air, and begin heading back to the boat while also ascending. What happens when they get to 20 foot depth, both breathing heavier than normal, not as calm and trimmed as normal, with ~150 psi in one tank and ~300 psi in the other tank?

If I weight myself for neutral at the surface with an empty tank, I can keep myself under the props of a pleasure boat with an empty tank. Some beginning divers would still be challenged in that situation, especially when stressed.

Personally I think typical recreational divers diving with the absolute minimum weight for a calm SS is about as safe as diving with the "dreaded" absolute minimum Standards OW training.

 

[oly5050user]

Well, let's say two new recreational divers are diving as buddies at an open water site where recreational boaters also recreate. They are diving from a boat, so the dive flag is flying from the boat and the descend/ascend is supposed to be "near" the boat they are diving from.

Both of these new divers have had a similar refresher/ppb dive as you describe, getting totally relaxed and trimmed to find their absolute minimum weight necessary for a SS 15' deep with 500 psi AL80.

Now, on this OW dive, one of the divers goes OOA at depth. They survive the initial panic to begin the sharing air, and begin heading back to the boat while also ascending. What happens when they get to 20 foot depth, both breathing heavier than normal, not as calm and trimmed as normal, with ~150 psi in one tank and ~300 psi in the other tank?

If I weight myself for neutral at the surface with an empty tank, I can keep myself under the props of a pleasure boat with an empty tank. Some beginning divers would still be challenged in that situation, especially when stressed.

Personally I think typical recreational divers diving with the absolute minimum weight for a calm SS is about as safe as diving with the "dreaded" absolute minimum Standards OW training.

If one goes ooa or low on air they should not be swimming underwater to get back to the boat.The dive ends there and then and they-recreational divers- ascend directly to surface,make themselve positively buoyant, ,signal boat and stay on surface swimming back to boat.At 20'depth a wetsuit is sufficiently compressed that if weighed the way I described they should be neutral or even a bit negative that a bit of air in bcd will be needed to make him/her neutral.The way I described it is to be neutral at surface and become negative only with a full exhalation.

 

[diveprof]

Just an observation - Let's see here, Oly5050user is from New York and probably teaches folks quite regularly how to dive properly in heavy wetsuits or drysuits. Halemano is in Maui. Oly5050user has "scuba instructor" in the tag line under his name. Halemano has "solo diver" in his (as well as a scooter positioned in his rear on his profile photo - don't understand that) and refers to other scuba instructors as "weight nazis" if they possess a different opinion reagarding weighting. Who to look to for safety advice??? These are just observations. No slams intended - I do not know either of these individuals.

However, my viewpoint may create a bias.


An overweighted diver or underweighted diver could be placed at risk. We all want to be safe. That said, newer and infrequent divers tend to use (not necessarily need) more weight than divers with additional experience. Weighting needs evolve. Experience, frequency of dives and training help the newer/infrequent diver make the jump from "equipment operator" to the zen scuba experience. To me one of the most rewarding of benefits of being an instructor is to help a diver find his/her way along this path. Helping a diver learn to relax, reducing their anxiety and building their confidence though skill mastery assists them in removing unneeded weight and achieving peak bouyancy control and improved air consumption/ longer dive times. Yes, I am from the "get the (unneeded) lead out" school of thought - safely, with experience and training.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Just an observation - Let's see here, Oly5050user is from New York and probably teaches folks quite regularly how to dive properly in heavy wetsuits or drysuits. Halemano is in Maui. Oly5050user has "scuba instructor" in the tag line under his name. Halemano has "solo diver" in his (as well as a scooter positioned in his rear on his profile photo - don't understand that) and refers to other scuba instructors as "weight nazis" if they possess a different opinion reagarding weighting. Who to look to for safety advice??? These are just observations. No slams intended - I do not know either of these individuals.

The weight nazi's do not express an opinion. They state categorically, "you are over-weighted!" Since the first week in March a few "instructors" have been stating categorically that Karen is over-weighted, for something like 3 or 4 threads, 3 or 4 different config's, in 2 or 3 different kinds of water.

Other instructors have typed well enough to not pass final judgment on Karen and all her previous instructors as "guilty" of over-weighting, without ever diving with Karen. The ones that pass judgment from a keyboard without ever diving with Karen are the ones I'm calling weight nazi's.

I work with a couple weight nazi instructor/guides, so even on the second dive, even after a comfy first dive for everyone, I'm usually carrying two extra 2 lb weights (three on the first dive). It takes how ever much weight it takes, and until you are there you can not know for sure.

The rest of your observations about me are about equal to your understanding of my profile page. :mooner:

 

[haumana ronin]

The weight nazi's do not express an opinion. They state categorically, "you are over-weighted!" Since the first week in March a few "instructors" have been stating categorically that Karen is over-weighted, for something like 3 or 4 threads, 3 or 4 different config's, in 2 or 3 different kinds of water.

Other instructors have typed well enough to not pass final judgment on Karen and all her previous instructors as "guilty" of over-weighting, without ever diving with Karen. The ones that pass judgment from a keyboard without ever diving with Karen are the ones I'm calling weight nazi's.

I work with a couple weight nazi instructor/guides, so even on the second dive, even after a comfy first dive for everyone, I'm usually carrying two extra 2 lb weights (three on the first dive). It takes how ever much weight it takes, and until you are there you can not know for sure.

The rest of your observations about me are about equal to your understanding of my profile page. :mooner:

Although I do agree that there is a lot of opinion in SB stated as fact, to which a newb such as myself might be tempted to accept as such, I am gonna have to invoke Godwin's Law on you :tongue2:

And for the record, I think she will also be overweighted with 25#, mainly based on another thread stating she felt she was balanced at 10# (I think...) with 3mm in a salt-y water pool. I don't know the conditions of that test or what calculations were done, so it is just a SWAG.

Nothing to do but to give it a shot and see what happens

:zen:

 

[knowone]

Perfectly underweighted in a pool, doing a ten foot stop in swell
under a boat, I'd like to see the Axis of weight and trim do that

and then the post dive marshals can check lbs and psi's, as well
and decree

No soup for anyone

Except new diving people, that dive within a recreational bottom
and realise that sinking a bit slowly is better than going up quick

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

And for the record, I think she will also be overweighted with 25#, mainly based on another thread stating she felt she was balanced at 10# (I think...) with 3mm in a salt-y water pool. I don't know the conditions of that test or what calculations were done, so it is just a SWAG.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...g-diving/375573-what-if-equipment-issues.html

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...ng-diving/378427-my-kauai-aow-experience.html *

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...572-what-if-dive-planning-trust-me-dives.html

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...g-diving/373204-how-long-master-buoyancy.html *

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...ving/375574-what-if-physiological-issues.html

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne.../374557-how-not-look-like-christmas-tree.html *

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...-diving/373086-scared-do-back-roll-entry.html *

The above linked threads are the complete results from an SB search on "TexasKaren68 weight" - the Asterisks indicate threads started by Karen, the others are threads started by Cave Diver.

I seriously doubt anyone can find "she felt she was balanced at 10# (I think...) with 3mm in a salt-y water pool" anywhere in any of those threads, but I am always glad to be shown when I am not typing correctly!