Question about Trainers??

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wdcourson

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This may or may not have been covered. My issue is which courses should I attempt to take, or should I say who's courses should I take. Padi or SSI. I have been told by a couple people that PADI is more well known around the world and they can bet you get great training with them. Is SSI a good cert to have or do you recommend PADI?
If you cannot respond without flaming me then please dont bother responding. Thank you for responses in advance
 
After my wife and I completed our Scuba (PADI) OW certifications (+10 dives) whilst on vacation in the Maldives, I thought we were just the bees knees. One of my friends was/is BSAC qualified and he was very condescending of the PADI system, I won't go into the details.

Anyway, we now have 70 Dives each (18 months later) have completed our AOW & Nitrox courses.

So that is my story, and it probably reflects that of many other divers out there.

18 months later, this is what I think deep inside;

1. It makes no difference which agency you choose to learn with, the instructor that teaches you is either in it for the love of the sport or in it for the money. Find the passionate instructor that will spend time leading/guiding you into this risky/wonderful new dimension.

2. I think that a certification is merely a "learners licence" in scuba. You consolidate your knowledge and confidence outside of a learning/classroom environment. Places like this forum, or other divers in your community are the places where the real understanding is gained. In a classroom or training environment, the goal is to get through the course, you (normally) have the safety net in the form of an instructor so ultimately you need not depend on yourself. This may not sound like a fair comment, but when you take the advice from another diver and you try it out yourself, or you face an issue underwater and you realise what/were the problem is yourself and how to fix/remedy it yourself, that is the real learning experience.

IMHO - In order to fully experience scuba safely and to get the maximum pleasure and benefit with the least risk, you have to take control. No matter how many dive buddies you have, ultimately you dive alone and you have to be responsible for every choice you make. If you understand (or believe) this, then the next logical step is to accept that only you can seek out that knowledge, not PADI or SSI or NAUI or BSAC. They are the vehicle to get you into the water safely, it is your job to make the water your own.

... Afterthought ...

My response may have gone beyond the scope of the question, sorry about that. The above is based on an Aha! moment for me and I suppose that is close to my heart.

Best Regards

Richard
 
No, Thank you for your response. I think thats what I was hoping the answer would be because in Los Angeles PADI is going to charge around 800 thats with the fins, mask, stuff that I have to purchase. The SSI is going to charge 300 and you can rent everything. The guy I spoke with said why make me buy something when I may not even like it and then I will have a couple hundred dollers worth of junk. So, yes I want to save money while doing it but I would pay the extra if one was better or a better quality of training. Anyway, again Thx for your input
 
All I can say is, having experience with both SSI and PADI, each agency with play up their "pros" in their sales brochures. Both agencies' Open Water Certification course (theory, pool and open water) have similar basic elements to get you certified at the basic level - a starter on your training ladder.

It is true that one is more flexible than the other but at the end of the day, you want a good instructor and a good training centre.

Don't believe anyone who tells you that one is recognised less than the other - that is just a sales pitch. Certs by both agencies are recognised to equal levels and are interchangeable for the purposes of further training (so you can do OW with A, then Advanced Course with B then another course with A or B etc).
 
wdcourson:
I have been told by a couple people that PADI is more well known around the world and they can bet you get great training with them. Is SSI a good cert to have or do you recommend PADI?

Both of them and many others are very well known around the world. While you can get exellent training with either, you can't count on it. Neither have requirements that guarantee getting great training and frankly both are better respected for their marketing than their training. If you want great training, you'll have to do some more homework.

Since you are in LA, I'd recommend taking an LA County course. LA County offers some of the finest training to be found anywhere.

To find a good class, you'll need to interview instructors you are considering hiring to teach you to dive. Since you don't know much about diving, you'll probably need a little guidance with the interview. Here's my guide to finding an excellent class:

How do I find an above average course and how will I know I've found it?

Interview potential instructors. Most people never ask any questions beyond price. As the old saying goes, "You get what you pay for." Excellent instructors will usually have a higher priced class for a number of reasons. The instructor is dedicated toward providing you all the time you need to master necessary knowledge and skills. Extra pool time can be expensive. Keep in mind; the instructor is trying to make a living. His time is valuable.

Consider alternatives. While many instructors teach through dive shops, some of the best are independent instructors or affiliated with colleges, universities or YMCA's.

Questions to ask the instructors:

How long have you been teaching? Most instructors improve over time. They learn new techniques and get ideas from other instructors and through experience to improve their classes.

Do you certify all your students? Only instructors who are in a hurry and care nothing about your safety will answer yes. You want an instructor who will require you to be safe and knowledgeable before issuing a c-card. An excellent instructor might tell you that he is willing to keep working with a student until the student either qualifies or gives up.

What skin diving skills will I learn? While there is some disagreement on this point, many professionals believe a solid foundation in skin diving will not only make you a better SCUBA diver, it will make learning SCUBA easier.

Will I learn confidence-building skills? There are some skills which have no direct application to a typical dive, but which do build your confidence as well as your abilities. This, combined with an understanding of the panic cycle, will make you much less likely to panic.

Do you teach the panic cycle? Panic is the most dangerous aspect of diving. Many instructors do not understand panic and believe there is no way to combat it. In actuality, panic is understood. It is though learning the panic cycle and by increasing skill levels that panic is avoided.

Do your students swim with their hands? This will let you know if the instructor pays attention to details. Good divers do not use their hands for swimming.

Do you work on trim? Divers should usually be horizontal in the water. Good instructors will see that students are striving towards good trim. Poor instructors often neglect it.

Do you overweight your students? Many instructors overweight students. It is not a good practice.

What method do you use to correctly weight your students? Any answer that does not involve actually getting in the water means you want to avoid that instructor.

How many people will be in my class? Small classes are better. You'll have more individual attention. Unless the instructor is using certified assistants, more than four students are difficult to watch.

How many certified assistants will you be using? Unless the class is relatively large (more than 4 students) this should not be an issue. An instructor should have a certified Divemaster or Assistant Instructor for every two students over four. There are times when divers working on their Divemaster or Assistant Instructor certifications assist with a class. This is normal and not an issue, but they do not count toward the assistants an instructor should have when working with larger classes.

Will I be learning skills kneeling on the pool bottom or mid-water? This question is not critical, but will let you know if you've found an instructor who has a great deal on the ball. The over whelming majority of instructors (even good instructors) teach skills kneeling on the bottom. Don't eliminate instructors who do. Some instructors have realized your mask will flood while you are swimming, not when you are sitting on the bottom. You need to learn skills in the manner in which you'll be using them.

Do you dive for fun or just when you are teaching? Instructors who've stopped diving for fun are burned out.

Questions to ask yourself:

Is the instructor patient? While talking with your potential instructor, you should be getting a feel for his personality. Patience is an important quality for an instructor. You want to avoid instructors with a drill sergeant demeanor.

Would I be happier learning from a man or a woman? Only you can answer that question, but in general it is not usually a serious consideration. There are excellent instructors and there are poor instructors. Men and women fall into both groups.
 
Thre is very little difference between what SSI requires and what PADI requires--certainly not enough to justify that much of a difference in price. The $800 you mention is much more than I would have expected. I suggest you look very carefully at what you are getting for the money. The $800 price may include some additional things that are not included as a part of the $300 price, so it might not be a fair comparison.

Edit: I saw that the PADI price included mask, fins, and snorkel, but they don't cost anywhere near $500. You will almost certainly want to buy them anyway.
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again... the Agency is not important.

Find a good Instructor and stick with him. The letters behind his/her name are unimportant.

There are at least 20 agencies out there... all with good and bad instructors.

If I had to recommend an agency to a friend or family member based on pure professionalism across the board (not knowing an Instructor in their area)... I'd refer them to

SDI/TDI
BSAC
CMAS
PADI
IANTD
ACUC

The ones I would not recommend based on personal experience are

SSI
PDIC
NAUI
IDEA

With all that said, I know there are good Instructors even in the bad agencies

Prices for open water vary by zip code... from as low as $99 to as high as $6000. Being cheap with training (in a sport that can kill you) is not necessarily the best way to go. I think a fair price for Open Water is about $400 - $600. Just remember, you generally get what you pay for.
 
Most of what you will learn is the same whether you do SSI or PADI, both subscribe to the minimum standards as stipulated by the Recreational Scuba Training Council (RSTC or WRSTC). SSI is generally cheaper, partly because they don't require students to own their own manuals, which PADI does.

Cheap does not always mean poor, in the same way that expensive does not mean good. I agree with Walter about talking to your instructor in advance if possible (not always easy in resort locations). I also find it is often beneficial for me as an instructor to talk with my students before they sign up for a course.

And word of mouth counts for a great deal in this business!
 
"This may or may not have been covered"

Only 100s of times! But its a good question, and will say again Walters post should be a "Stickey"

Read it more than once, ask the questions, and based upon the answers you get, you will have a basis on whether you want the class from that particular instructor.

Where I differ slightly from some is I think the instructor is really key vs the agency (although I recognize there are differences), but what is most important is that after you get your certification, you dive as much as possible. Comfortability underwater is based on time and repitition.

All the certifcation allows you is the ability to rent/buy life support eq, dive from a charter boat, and get air fills. Most everything else recreactionally comes through practice.
 
I just gotta give a little plug for NASE....We have no real advertising budget...but we meet all the standards of RSTC.

My experience teaching with NASE: They get the C-Cards in a timely bases (I 've had a card within 18 hrs). I have to deal with with people on weird work schedules: ie Flight Attendants, Pilots, EMT's, Recreational Industry, etc). I can Taylor their training quite easily to meet their difficult schedules. I can move stuff around....within logic... to fit a difficult schedule
 
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