Question about military trained divers

[GDI]

Many of the mil divers in Canada can get their civilian cards by the same mil instructors they had in the mil class. Many of those instructors have both civilian and mil quals for cerrtifying divers. so hey for another $25 bucks they can get their cards. MIl diving and comercial diving is very different from sport diving in some ways. PADI does have a experience program and many mil divers have gotten their cards this way

 

[Island Hoppa]

Even so, they are still not considered SEALs. Each individual has to attend Army Airborne training, and then they are assigned to a Team. Once you are stationed at a team then you begin the whole training cycle over. First you attend SEAL tactical training, which is another 6 months. If you make it through that then you are assigned to a platoon. Once with a platoon you begin your avanced operator training (AOT), which usually lasts a year and a half. If your lucky, at some point during your AOT you go in front of a review board and are awarded your Trident. Then and only then are you considered a SEAL.

Your original post was not only ignorant, but a slap in the face to the young men in that video, who I am sure are much less concerned with your assessment of their skills, as with the defense and security of this great nation!

Jeff Bromley
BUD/S Class 160
SEAL Team 8

hooyah to this seal. just wanted to let you know that stt (seal tactical training) was abolished in 2001 and made way for sqt (seal qualification training). nowadays recruits are also required to attend winter training in anchorage after successfully completing their designated sqt class. they also undergo there sere school with marine soc personal and navy swcc im sure you know about this class. sqt is currently an 18 week course that preps you for the rigors of actual team training with a designated team. the course is much like stt but it adds on a few weeks and some additonal training. after successfully completing sqt seal students are immediately awarded their trident then assigned to a present team.

 

[Island Hoppa]

hooyah to this seal. just wanted to let you know that stt (seal tactical training) was abolished in 2001 and made way for sqt (seal qualification training). nowadays recruits are also required to attend winter training in anchorage after successfully completing their designated sqt class. they also undergo there sere school with marine soc personal and navy swcc im sure you know about this class. sqt is currently an 18 week course that preps you for the rigors of actual team training with a designated team. the course is much like stt but it adds on a few weeks and some additonal training. after successfully completing sqt seal students are immediately awarded their trident then assigned to a present team.

oh yeah and to everyone out there talking about those seal "documentaries". those videos are absolute bs. NO civilian will ever understand what it takes to become a combatant combat diver. what you see on tv is just a brief image of it. diver training held at the NSW center is by far more complete than any "recreational" open water. if all divers had to undergo what present day seals go through there would not be alot of divers. and not just seals, other navy dive programs held in panama city are extremely intense also.

 

[Bubble Blower 479]

The training shown on TV was called BUD/S (basic underwater demolition/seal) and is intented to weed out people who are not physically able, highly motivated or team players. They receive only very basic scuba training with two hose regulators to prepare them for rebreathers. The training subjects the students to extreme physical and mental stress. The last week of the training is called Hell Week where students are pushed through various exercises around the clock with only 2 or 3 hours sleep a day all the while cold and wet. The average drop out rate is about 90%. Those who graduate go on to advanced diver training at the underwater swimmers school. Most of us on this board could not afford the time and cost to get the training the military gives.

Captain

MikeF, I don't think anyone questions your evaluations based on what you saw. But I think you should reread the above statement form post #36. He clearly states that you watched a program that covered only part of the training. He then indicates that the graduates go onto another course for further training. The first course isn't meant to teach them how to dive, it's to evaluate how well they handle stress while underwater. After the 90% are washed out, the navy is then willing to spend more time and money to train the remaining 10% to dive. Seems like they don't what to waste time on those that aren't going to succeed.

 

[Island Hoppa]

MikeF, I don't think anyone questions your evaluations based on what you saw. But I think you should reread the above statement form post #36. He clearly states that you watched a program that covered only part of the training. He then indicates that the graduates go onto another course for further training. The first course isn't meant to teach them how to dive, it's to evaluate how well they handle stress while underwater. After the 90% are washed out, the navy is then willing to spend more time and money to train the remaining 10% to dive. Seems like they don't what to waste time on those that aren't going to succeed.

this is absolutely correct! what people see on tv is nothing more than a brief image of buds (basic underwater demolition/seal training) even at that they see barely nothing. bud/s focuses on the basics of becoming a combat diver, later advanced schools will teach ALL forms of scuba. making it through buds just buys you a ticket into advanced seal training or SQT. and not everyone makes it from there. all seals are considered divemasters. even before entering the water in 2nd phase at buds seals have to undergo 2 weeks of advanced education relating to physics, physiology, and medicine and how they relate to being underwater if they fail they are GONE. doing daily freedives to 50' and tying knots to build confidence underwater is also daily. being able to swim 50 meters underwater in a full combat uniform is also mandatory. navigating in absolute zero visibilty over a mile easy to reaching the hull of a ship to be able to plant mines, then having to move to the extract point. not to mention the infamous "shark attacks" that are given by the instructors. these things are just a brief image of some dive training held in coronado. not to mention that seals are completiing all of these things usually with under 4 hrs of sleep a night doing daily 4 mile timed beach runs (31 min in boots in the sand) and 5 mile open ocean sidestroke swims in 60 degree water and dont even get me going on about the o course. seals are more comfortable in the water than any special operations force in the world and any other recreational program. it just makes me angry that people look at videos on tv and think they know what seal training is all about they have no idea. saying they are only taught the "basics" of scuba diving, that is someone talking out of there a$$ that has no idea.

 

[Atticus]

I feel like I need to chime in and get us back to the original question:

Are divers that are trained by the military in the use of scuba given any kind of documents showing that they have been trained to dive? If so can they use these documents to board dive boats etc?

What we're being asked is whether or not we (instructors, dive shop owners, and dive boat owners) can and will accept military training records in lieu of recreational dive certificates.

It makes no difference if we respect the armed services or not. It makes no difference if we respect the men that go through these programs.

What does matter is whether our agencies, our insurance policies, and our consciences can accept their training as being equal to or greater than the training done in the recreational dive industry (and here's the important part) for the purpose of conducting recreational dives.

I don't know a darned thing about planting explosives, transporting firearms underwater, or killing a man with a knife. If you attack me underwater, put a chain around my neck, or whatever other hideous things they do to these young men in their classes I probably wont do well. This is not the skill set of a recreational diver.

I don't know if the SEAL training prepares them for the dive environment that I issue certification cards for, rent equipment for, and take people on trips in. This is the question gentlemen - how can I, a recreational dive instructor, know that a SEAL's training prepares them for this environment? I'm not saying it doesn't, but before I accept it I need to *know* that it does.

I am certain that there are military divers with much more diving experience than I have. There are probably some with much less. How can I tell the difference short of taking them into the water and observing/grading their skills?

What would be beneficial to me is if a military diver or better yet instructor could post information about the certification levels, what they mean, what skills were required, what the performance requirements were, and what paperwork we should ask for.

What would be even better is if they would work with RSTC (http://www.wrstc.com/main.php) to get those certifications officially recognized to reduce the legal liability that instructors take on when working with these divers.

 

[Atticus]

...that is someone talking out of there a$$ that has no idea.

You're right, we [recreational dive instructors/shops/boats] have no idea. We're being asked to rent gear, offer continuing training, etc, and we have no idea what their skill set it. That is the issue.

 

[MikeFerrara]

MikeF, I don't think anyone questions your evaluations based on what you saw. But I think you should reread the above statement form post #36. He clearly states that you watched a program that covered only part of the training. He then indicates that the graduates go onto another course for further training. The first course isn't meant to teach them how to dive, it's to evaluate how well they handle stress while underwater. After the 90% are washed out, the navy is then willing to spend more time and money to train the remaining 10% to dive. Seems like they don't what to waste time on those that aren't going to succeed.

I can't argue that one way or the other but as I said the last portions of the show were of the divers working under a ship in the ocean using rebreathers. I wouldn't think they'd be there until the Navy thought they could dive but I don't know.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Many of the mil divers in Canada can get their civilian cards by the same mil instructors they had in the mil class. Many of those instructors have both civilian and mil quals for cerrtifying divers. so hey for another $25 bucks they can get their cards. MIl diving and comercial diving is very different from sport diving in some ways. PADI does have a experience program and many mil divers have gotten their cards this way

Yes there is the experienced diver program which still requires a written test and some dives.

The original question of the thread was a good one. In the time I've been teaching and the years I owned a shop I never once had a diver try to rent equipment or take continueing education by presenting any kind of military documentation or certification. I have met several who said they had been divers in the military. If I look back I probably had a couple who even went through an OW class but no one ever asked me to accept a military credential. I don't recall ever seeing a specific reference to it in any training standards as an equivilant either. If the training covers the same material and much more (as I'm being told) it doesn't make much sense does it? I can't see the agencies, especially the US based agencies having any prejudice against the US military. Maybe I'll talk to some agency folks and see what they say.

 

[MikeFerrara]

oh yeah and to everyone out there talking about those seal "documentaries". those videos are absolute bs. NO civilian will ever understand what it takes to become a combatant combat diver. what you see on tv is just a brief image of it. diver training held at the NSW center is by far more complete than any "recreational" open water. if all divers had to undergo what present day seals go through there would not be alot of divers. and not just seals, other navy dive programs held in panama city are extremely intense also.

I absolutely believe you that the documentories are BS. Heck the news is BS and I haven't see a good diving show since JC stoped making films.

You say the training is more complete. I'm asking how? I believe every one that the training is very hard but what is the diving content and specifically how does it correspond to the requirements of any of the courses that we teach? For any one familiar with military training requirements and recreational training requirements it should be en extremely simple question to answer.