Pushing out a little further beyond the Hill 400 Line

[LiteHedded]

yeah yeah, I get it. The problem is that he is not doing it right.

Feeling a little spooked sometimes is keeping your ego and optimism in check. That's not a bad thing. What he is trying to do isn't exactly crazy.
The notion that a random buddy always adds safety or is competent is not accurate. And yes, I get that you and litehedded have been diving in Flordia for 20 years and have your little group of buddies you've known for x years. That's not true for everybody though. People end up with random divers alot.

What is your training and experience level if you don’t mind me asking?

 

[tomfcrist]

Feeling a little spooked sometimes is keeping your ego and optimism in check. That's not a bad thing. What he is trying to do isn't exactly crazy.
The notion that a random buddy always adds safety or is competent is not accurate.

First point correct. However, if being in a new part of the cave gives you that feeling, it’s probably 100% smarter to go explore it with someone who’s been there before. I’m not sure why you feel that poking AJ and LH is needed, I think the opinions of legit cave divers with consistent experience over a relatively long period of time are beneficial to the conversation. Nobody is going to force a specific way of doing things down anyone’s throat. Manatee wants to drag a stage to do a 1600’ penetration…cool…his prerogative. Dudes here asking for opinions…and is getting a few different ones.

 

[DogDiver]

A little off topic. Going sidemount I hate stage bottles. Way too much drag. For my choice I use different size bottles depending on my dive plan. LP 80s, LP 85s, HP 120s or finally LP 104s. All filled to 3800 psi. This gives me the ability to make gas management based on my planned dive profile. Plus 23 years of living and diving in North Florida gives me a large data base on previous dives.

 

[LiteHedded]

A little off topic. Going sidemount I hate stage bottles. Way too much drag. For my choice I use different size bottles depending on my dive plan. LP 80s, LP 85s, HP 120s or finally LP 104s. All filled to 3800 psi. This gives me the ability to make gas management based on my planned dive profile. Plus 23 years of living and diving in North Florida gives me a large data base on previous dives.

My sidemount experience isn’t tons but I haven’t really noticed a problem with stages

 

[PfcAJ]

yeah yeah, I get it. The problem is that he is not doing it right.

Feeling a little spooked sometimes is keeping your ego and optimism in check. That's not a bad thing. What he is trying to do isn't exactly crazy.
The notion that a random buddy always adds safety or is competent is not accurate. And yes, I get that you and litehedded have been diving in Flordia for 20 years and have your little group of buddies you've known for x years. That's not true for everybody though. People end up with random divers alot.

Following up on LH’s q about your experience level….

 

[berndo]

What is your training and experience level if you don’t mind me asking?

I started cave diving in 07 after 10 year of ow diving and done between 0 and 5 cave diving trips per year since then. For a while I lived a place where I could go caving after work. Why? Can you actually give a reason why he shouldn't bring a stage?

I’m not sure why you feel that poking AJ and LH is needed, I think the opinions of legit cave divers with consistent experience over a relatively long period of time are beneficial to the conversation.

Cause it's their schtick to only ever post snarky one liners. There is not actual reasoning given or point adressed. Well, to be fair it's mostly AJ and lh to a much lesser degree.
Telling the guy (or anyone else for that matter) it's an easy dive and you don't need more gas, is really bad adivice IMHO. They are just saying that because in DIR diving solo isn't allowed.
They essentially told the guy not to go diving unless he finds a 'compentent' buddy and the dive is easy.
BTW: What's a legit cave divers and what's not a legit cave diver?

Manatee wants to drag a stage to do a 1600’ penetration…cool…his prerogative. Dudes here asking for opinions…and is getting a few different ones.

So what's wrong with using a stage for that dive?
In my experience, people dive solo when they don't have a compentent buddy for a certain dive they want to do and not because they so super keen on diving solo. Everbody I know that dives cave solo sometimes, generally prefers to have a good buddy.

Getting spooked once is not a red flag to me, it's normal. Admitting to it makes him seem not too overly confident, which is a good thing. Being extra careful and maybe bringing 'too much' gas is good thing too.

I've said it before, diving with a compentent buddy is the best option but it's not realistic to have that depending on where or when you dive.

A little off topic. Going sidemount I hate stage bottles. Way too much drag.

That's odd. I don't get how you can have more drag in SM than in BM, with stages or without.

 

[tomfcrist]

Telling the guy (or anyone else for that matter) it's an easy dive and you don't need more gas, is really bad adivice IMHO.

Bringing stages is only needed when you can’t do the dive you are planning without breaking thirds on backgas. The other 2/3 is quite literally your “more gas incase shite goes south”

What's a legit cave divers and what's not a legit cave diver?

IDK, maybe folks that dive caves on a weekly basis vice once every couple of months?

In my experience, people dive solo when they don't have a compentent buddy for a certain dive they want to do and not because they so super keen on diving solo

I dive solo as well, but I generally don’t if I am apprehensive about the area I’m planning to dive. Both competence and confidence should be built over time. If either come quickly, ya might want to check yourself.

 

[berndo]

IDK, maybe folks that dive caves on a weekly basis vice once every couple of months?

So if I don't cave dive on a weekly basis I'm not a legit cave diver? What does it take to jugde a dive plan to 1600' feet in a super clear cave with almost pee-warm water, virtually no silt and flow that tries to push you out?

Bringing stages is only needed when you can’t do the dive you are planning without breaking thirds on backgas. The other 2/3 is quite literally your “more gas incase shite goes south”

I disagree with this. I don't use 3rds and definitely wouldn't diving solo... even though I have in the past.
I think it's perfectly fine do to a dive on mostly one stage and use most of the SM gas for extra buffer. I'm genuinely surprised that a cave diver would think that's **** plan. Sure the stage is going to cause some extra drag... causes you to hit turn pressure earlier. That make it safer. I'm not looking to go for max distance but for a safer plan and I don't think one stage is a crazy load to carry.

 

[tomfcrist]

So if I don't cave dive on a weekly basis I'm not a legit cave diver?

Like any other activity, generally speaking, someone who cave dives more often than another probably has more experience and competency. Not always true…but generally. I think you are hanging on the word legit. I will concede and reword: “I think the opinions and insights of cave divers who do this on a regular basis are beneficial.”

Sure the stage is going to cause some extra drag... causes you to hit turn pressure earlier. That make it safer.

So you’re telling me that the whole point of bringing the stage is to DECREASE the range in a cave? You do you bud.

 

[berndo]

So you’re telling me that the whole point of bringing the stage is to DECREASE the range in a cave? You do you bud.

That's not what I meant. You're still getting farther with one stage vs without stage.
If I start without stage with 6000 liters and use a quarter for the way it's 1500 liters.
If I start with stage with 8000 liters and use a quater for the way in it's 2000 liters. It's 500/18cuft more and just a little more drag. I'm getting further into the cave but still have more buffer in actual cuft/l, at the very least I'm getting just as far but with more spare gas.
If I had a free flow for instance I lose a lower % of the gas and having one more tanks splits my gas over one more source of gas.
I'm just using round numbers in liters to have an easy example, it's not a dive plan.
My only point is, if it makes you feel more warm and fuzzy when you bring some more gas, I think you should do it.

Like any other activity, generally speaking, someone who cave dives more often than another probably has more experience and competency.

Yes, of course, but it's a pretty weak argument against bringing one stage on a solo dive.