PSTs, Fabers and Rust...

[MacLeod]

I don't mean to beat this topic to death regarding PST tanks but...I just got off the phone with a dealer from Florida...very nice guy. We were discussing something totally different but eventually the conversation drifted towards tanks. (What a surprise... right? ).
He sells PSTs, Fabers, and the new Worthingtons so his objectivity was not an issue.

He was saying that in his experience the old LPs were great...not just in terms of performance, but regarding internal rust problems. If a little water droplet should enter the PST LP from a wet valve/filler hose the inside would get a kind of brown flash rust that could be easily dealt with. The old HPs however, bkz they were a different material would develop pitting problems...some quite severe sometimes leading to failed inspections (i.e. dead tanks).

I found this interesting bkz while the E7s (old HPs) have remained the same in terms of dimensions and material, the new E8s (old LP104s) too are now made from the same Chromium molybdenum.

About a year ago I remember talking with several technicalGUE Instructors/shop owners who said that the PST HPs seemed to have more problems with severe internal rust around their necks (unlike their LP 104s). They attributed it to some freakish property of smaller neck openings. But if it was the material to blame and not the neck opening size, then the current E8s would have the same problems...a propensity for bad pitting from something as possibly unavoidable as a dealer/boat's wet fill (unless you can fill yourself).

The dealer I spoke with today said he has not experienced such pitting problems from Fabers. (He was also unaware that the new E8s used the same material as the E7s (old HPs).

Does anyone have any experiences with this?
What are your thoughts on Faber steels (I noticed on a quick read that their swing weights are not as good as they become several pounds positively buoyant when empty).

Thank you!

 

[drbill]

I had an "older" (10 years) PST HP120 fail its second lifetime hydro over a year ago, and fail miserably. I was very unhappy and contacted PST's owner and president. No resolution from them. Since then I've stayed away from the PST line (although in all honesty in part due to lack of availability). Did buy an HP120 from a dive buddy of mine.

If there is such a problem, I wish PST would own up to it and offer some customer service to those of us who may have been affected by it. I know that PST has had larger problems not of their own making to deal with such as the condemnation of their original factory by the city and the need to relocate.

Dr. Bill

 

[MacLeod]

I had an "older" (10 years) PST HP120 fail its second lifetime hydro over a year ago, and fail miserably. I was very unhappy and contacted PST's owner and president. No resolution from them. Since then I've stayed away from the PST line (although in all honesty in part due to lack of availability). Did buy an HP120 from a dive buddy of mine.

If there is such a problem, I wish PST would own up to it and offer some customer service to those of us who may have been affected by it. I know that PST has had larger problems not of their own making to deal with such as the condemnation of their original factory by the city and the need to relocate.

Dr. Bill

Bill, I have heard from a number of people that seem to have had similar problems to yours. There must be something to this Chromium Molybdenum and rust issue. People with the older LP tanks (which used a differnt type of steel) have not had this problem. Those with the HPs and E series have said otherwise. With the E7-120 and E8-130 going for $400+/- each....and it is just a tank...you would hope it would last for a long time with good care. And again, from what I was told, it is just the occasional drop of water from maybe a wet valve or fill hose (something beyond most owners control if they drop their tanks off to be filled)...that can create such havoc.

For the first time I am wondering if maybe I should consider Faber or Worthington. At the least, perhaps worthy of more consideration.

Bill, thank you for sharing your experience!

 

[Tom Winters]

A dead 10-tear old tank would be a real bummer to deal with. I have Fabers - yes, they rust but I nuke it every so often and then they're happy, and I bet they pass hydro for a long time. Also, since I have been treating any rust, I see less and less of it every six months.
I just got two Worthington 85's from Joel at TDL. Sweet little steel babies after wrestling LP125's. I still can't understand why my wife did not share my joy in my new acquistions. How can they get all worked up over kids and not new scuba tanks?

 

[boydski]

I had an "older" (10 years) PST HP120 fail its second lifetime hydro over a year ago, and fail miserably. I was very unhappy and contacted PST's owner and president. No resolution from them. Since then I've stayed away from the PST line (although in all honesty in part due to lack of availability). Did buy an HP120 from a dive buddy of mine.

Dr. Bill

Hi Dr. Bill,

I don't know if this had anything to do with your tank failures, but did want to pass on that PST uses an unusual hydrotesting procedure that requires the testor to take the tank up to ~90% of test pressure, hold it, release, recalibrate and then test. Many hydrotestest facilities fail to do the pre-pressurization, which typically results in the tank failing. A friend recently had 2 PST LP 80's that were in immaculate condition that were condemned by the testing facility. These tanks were sent to PST and were retested in front of a DOT inspector, and passed.

I have heard of similar problems from others so find it prudent to tape the hydrotesting procedures to the tank when I send it for testing.

 

[Rick Murchison]

The only problems I've ever had with any PST has been freckling from poor fill technique - something I no longer have a problem with since I don't ever just drop 'em off for fills but do a little checking on the fill station first.
My Fabers, on the other hand, have required routine attention to combat exterior rust. Comes with the territory.
As for PST's failing Hydro - I've never seen it when the testing facility followed the proper procedure.
Rick

 

[MudDog]

I just got two Worthington 85's from Joel at TDL. Sweet little steel babies after wrestling LP125's. I still can't understand why my wife did not share my joy in my new acquistions. How can they get all worked up over kids and not new scuba tanks?

I sympathize...my wife doesn't seem to share my appreciation for my new toys either. (...but in fairness, I don't get worked up over shoes, purses or jewelry either so I guess on some level it almost evens out. The difference though is, I don't generally spend 10 minutes telling HER why she doesn't "need" more shoes and purses! ).

A friend of mine told me the secret to introducing new "stuff" is to leave it in the trunk (or secret hiding spot) for a week or two. And then if "confronted" play the old..."What this? Oh I've had this for a long time"...routine. Sometimes it works...

 

[MudDog]

The only problems I've ever had with any PST has been freckling from poor fill technique - something I no longer have a problem with since I don't ever just drop 'em off for fills but do a little checking on the fill station first.
My Fabers, on the other hand, have required routine attention to combat exterior rust. Comes with the territory.
As for PST's failing Hydro - I've never seen it when the testing facility followed the proper procedure.
Rick

The above about rust problems with the "new" E-Series tanks are disconcerting. I too had heard the stories of PST HP tanks being much more prone to rust than their PST LP "brothers". I wondered if this would be a problem when PST changed their LPs over to the same steel as the old HPs.

As careful and as meticulous as one is about their gear, it is extremely difficult to be everywhere and account for all harmful variables. Sometimes, particularly in the case of tank fills, when you travel to distant dive sites you don't always have the luxury of knowing first hand what kind of fill you will get.

I'm a little curious about these new Worthingtons...some have touted that they "take the best of both the PST and Faber" characteristics (Worthington thread...somone from TechDivingLimited.com)...if this includes rust that would be great but I would be curious as they too are made from Chromium Molybdenum. (and I always worry when I hear "chemicals" are used to line a tank...if that were the case).

 

[Leadking]

The above about rust problems with the "new" E-Series tanks are disconcerting. I too had heard the stories of PST HP tanks being much more prone to rust than their PST LP "brothers". I wondered if this would be a problem when PST changed their LPs over to the same steel as the old HPs.

As careful and as meticulous as one is about their gear, it is extremely difficult to be everywhere and account for all harmful variables. Sometimes, particularly in the case of tank fills, when you travel to distant dive sites you don't always have the luxury of knowing first hand what kind of fill you will get.

I'm a little curious about these new Worthingtons...some have touted that they "take the best of both the PST and Faber" characteristics (Worthington thread...somone from TechDivingLimited.com)...if this includes rust that would be great but I would be curious as they too are made from Chromium Molybdenum. (and I always worry when I hear "chemicals" are used to line a tank...if that were the case).

The interior of Worthington cylinders are treated with food grade phosphate. I had the testing done at an independent lab to ensure that the air from a Worthington cylinder passed grade E breathing air.

Lee

 

[MacLeod]

The interior of Worthington cylinders are treated with food grade phosphate. I had the testing done at an independent lab to ensure that the air from a Worthington cylinder passed grade E breathing air.

Lee

Thanks Lee...that is very interesting to hear. Do you by any chance know if PST does this as well or is this something that is unique to Worthington's cylinders. Is this phophate truly effective at preventing/retarding rust and are you aware of any potential hazrds of inhaling phosphates even if it is "food grade"?

Thanks again for your post!