Pros vs. Cons: Alt air on BC inflator?

[MikeFerrara]

Then perhaps you can explain why divers are taught to give their octo in all basic training classes as opposed to giving away their primary?

They're not taught that way in all classes.

All my students donate their primary and have their backup right under their chin on a necklace. I show and explain other methods but this is the only way that I'll teach and it's the only way that I'll dive.

Having an octo on a long hose clipped to a bc in a holder that rarely holds it...someplace on a divers body...with the hose dangling all over is just a mess.

 

[MikeFerrara]

The standard jacket BCD with "normal" regulator configuration has worked just fine for many years, and countless thousands of divers. Few would argue it being unsafe for recreational diving needs, at any rate. Different hose and regulator configurations may be shown to be somewhat safer and/or more comfortable, but that difference has not shown itself to manufacturers or training agencies to be significant.

It's seems to work only because divers rarely need to do anything with their octo aside from drag it around.

From what I've seen though the configuration doesn't work all that well when really needed. Divers generally do a rotten job of dealing with problems especially sharing gas. It's just a good thing they don't run into them all that often.

 

[archman]

They're not taught that way in all classes.
All my students donate their primary and have their backup right under their chin on a necklace. I show and explain other methods but this is the only way that I'll teach and it's the only way that I'll dive.

Oh come on Mike! We all know you're the obsessive compulsive extreme super-instructor. If you're not unique, your teaching demographic must be a shaved fraction of all open water students.

 

[android]

Divers generally do a rotten job of dealing with problems especially sharing gas. It's just a good thing they don't run into them all that often.

Yep, which is why all the arguing about which alternate air config is best is really pointless and stupid. All three setups have some pros and cons and all will work well if you practice every once in a while.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Yep, which is why all the arguing about which alternate air config is best is really pointless and stupid. All three setups have some pros and cons and all will work well if you practice every once in a while.

I have to agree with this.

While I do think that some equipment configurations are far superior to others for many reasons, the fact is that with practice a person can donate (or have donated) an alternate that is slopily attached to their midsection someplace or manage to use an alternate/inflator combination. Proficiency/or not with the configuration you choose will likely make a bigger difference than which one you choose.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Oh come on Mike! We all know you're the obsessive compulsive extreme super-instructor. If you're not unique, your teaching demographic must be a shaved fraction of all open water students.

Obsesive conpulsive extreme super instructor? LOL

Actually I know a number of instructors who teach what is basically a Hogarthian configuration and it has nothing to do with the demographic. People don't walk in the door and ask for it...on the contrary an instructor can choose to teach in one equipment configuration as easily as another...assuming of course they know it exists and undersatand the advantages.

In the case of most dive shops though they are just the tail that's being wagged by their boss...the equipment manufacturer who demands certain sales volumes. It's often the manufacturer who really decided what a shop and hence an instructor will push.

Just look around this very site at all the posts by instructors who state that they would like to use or teach a given configuration but it's not what their shop carries or uses.

What works best is virtually no factor at all.

 

[tboxcar]

Then perhaps you can explain why divers are taught to give their octo in all basic training classes as opposed to giving away their primary?

In a perfect world I agree! give the stricken diver your octo and use your primary. But let's face it a diver in an OOA situation is going to head for those bubbles first and grab your primary.
But back to what others said, both setups have their pro's and con's, practice with what you have and hope things never happend, but be prepared!

 

[Scubaguy62]

Yep, which is why all the arguing about which alternate air config is best is really pointless and stupid. All three setups have some pros and cons and all will work well if you practice every once in a while.

I agree with this as well, but I seem to find more cons to an alt inflator reg than to an octo bungied around my neck. The only "failure" I can think of is a free flowing octo, and I can deal with that quite easier. Besides, having the octo (or alt reg) bungied around my neck eliminates the need to use my hands to find it; just look down, insert, clear, and breathe.

Like most others, I was initially taught to donate my octo and continue breathing off my primary. After I became more experienced, I realized that donating my primary serves two purposes, which IMHO, are less of a risk than the second or so I'm not on a breathing source: 1- makes me more aware of the maintenance I give my octo and to ensure it breathes as my primary does, and 2- whomever shares gas with me will have the peace of mind that they will be breathing from a fully functional reg. I'd hate to see what happens if I donate my octo and the receiving diver finds out the darn thing doesn't work.

 

[skeet]

i use an integrated as and an octo.just gives you more options

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Then perhaps you can explain why divers are taught to give their octo in all basic training classes as opposed to giving away their primary?

Good question. Traditional instructors tend to teach this approach and it just does not work all that well in the real world. I have had three situations where I have donated to an OOA diver and in 2 of them, they grabbed the primary out of my mouth. "Donate" does not accurately describe how it usually really works. (The third involved a badly freeflowing reg at depth, we all new the air was going to stop soon and I had the reg in hand waitiing for him when it did.)

My preference is to dive with a 7' hose on the primary and donate it to an OOA diver. If he is calm, it gives you lots of room to swim in loose formation. If he is a little shakey, you can still keep him close and maintain eye contact by holding on to the BC straps.

There are two irrefutable facts about Air2s...

a) They are not as superior as having an octo bungeed around your neck and donating the primary. I think just about everyone, minus a few sticklers, will agree with me.

b) If you have a runaway inflator and have to disconnect it during a dive, you have just disconnected your alternate air source as well.

I agree with you on statement (a), but it involves two separate issues. Donating your primary is definitely the way to go but is something that is done as a matter of course with an Air 2. So Air 2 use does not preclude it and in fact even requires it.

I'd also agree a bungeed octo may be preferable in a tech situation but it offers no real life practical advantage to the average rec diver who is unlikely to ever be in a situation where they are in a confined space and/or have both hands busy doing something else.

The advantage of a bungeed octo is that the octo is always easy to find, something that is also true of an Air 2.

Statement (b) is true but it ignores the basic fact that the runaway inflator issue is almost entirely confined to cheap generic inflators or to similar designs that use an external button screwed on the stem to retain the spring. The most common reason these incidents occur is that the external nut/button screws itself off releasing the spring and preventing the seat from reseating when the button is released. I have never seen this occur with an Air 2 and I seriously doubt the nyloc nut inside the inflator assembly holding things together would ever unscrew itself in service.

If a diver experiences a runaway inflator failure on a rec dive, they really should be aborting the dive and making a direct ascent to the surface. The odds of having a second failure where a diver will need their alternate air source on the way to the surface is remote to say the least.

Considering this contingency is essentially planning for multiple failures. If you are into that then perhaps you should consider planning for your primary second stage and alternate to both fail and then make sure you have an Air 2 along to ensure you can still access the air in your tank without having to resort to trying to breath off an inflator.