Pros vs. Cons: Alt air on BC inflator?

[MyDiveLog]

I've read all the comments on the post, but none seemed to address what's the most critical issue for me: finding the darn thing in an emergency. Every time you add or remove air from your BC you are reinforcing the process of reaching for the 2ndary air source, which makes it an instinctive action in a crisis ... which is what you'll need. Is is a bit akward to breathe from and feel a bit less comfortable in your mouth than an octo? Yes, but I gaurantee you'll be clamped on the thing so tightly that comfort won't be what your are thinking about in a real emergency.

To all those that recommended the octo, I KNOW you will reply with comments about how the octo should be in an easily accessible place, and that people should practice accessing it regularly, etc. Save the typing: I agree, but most divers don't do that, so I recommend the more realistic alternative.

 

[The Chairman]

Well... in my mind

the best place for an octo is bungeed around your neck! No misplacing that bugger!

 

[rescuediver009]

I've read all the comments on the post, but none seemed to address what's the most critical issue for me: finding the darn thing in an emergency. Every time you add or remove air from your BC you are reinforcing the process of reaching for the 2ndary air source, which makes it an instinctive action in a crisis ... which is what you'll need. Is is a bit akward to breathe from and feel a bit less comfortable in your mouth than an octo? Yes, but I gaurantee you'll be clamped on the thing so tightly that comfort won't be what your are thinking about in a real emergency.

To all those that recommended the octo, I KNOW you will reply with comments about how the octo should be in an easily accessible place, and that people should practice accessing it regularly, etc. Save the typing: I agree, but most divers don't do that, so I recommend the more realistic alternative.

When you speak of people reinforcing the position of the octo every time they add or remove air, you have to consider that even with all the training people still sometimes forget where their conventional octo is in an emergency and they shoot for the surface. So unless they are drilling in training or are a very confident diver it is very difficult to guarantee that divers will react in a certain way in an emergency. For those who advocate it tell me how easy it would be then to have an emergency, stablize your buddy, breathe off your inflator that weighs 3-4 times a regular reg does, control your buoyancy at your mouth and perform a controlled ascent to the seurface.

 

[MyDiveLog]

When you speak of people reinforcing the position of the octo every time they add or remove air, you have to consider that even with all the training people still sometimes forget where their conventional octo is in an emergency and they shoot for the surface. So unless they are drilling in training or are a very confident diver it is very difficult to guarantee that divers will react in a certain way in an emergency. For those who advocate it tell me how easy it would be then to have an emergency, stablize your buddy, breathe off your inflator that weighs 3-4 times a regular reg does, control your buoyancy at your mouth and perform a controlled ascent to the seurface.

Yep, a panicked diver will sometimes shoot for the surface. A calm, well drilled diver will keep their cool and find an alternate air source wherever it is. I'm talking about neither of these ... the diver who is slightly panicked but, because they've 'rehearsed' finding their inflator hose hundreds or thousands of times ... but rarely if ever practiced finding their octo (i.e. most divers I see). I still maintain that they're more likely to get to their backup air source sooner (although NetDoc's octo-under-the-chin is probably as good or better).

I'm not sure what the weight of the reg has to do with it ... seems to be more of a long-term comfort issue and, once they get the reg clamped in their mouth, you can bet it'll be gripped so tight that weight isn't an issue. All the other stuff ... stabilizing a buddy, controlling bouyancy, etc. seems to be the same between the two methods to me. IMHO NO real-life emergency ascent would be easy, no matter how rehearsed you are!

 

[love2godeep]

Have you had to do an ascent while sharing air while using that thing? I never had, but it seems to me like breathing through it while controling your bouyancy and monitoring your depth and ascent rate would be a big enough pain in the tookus to negate any benefit you gain. .

OK this is embarassing, but I used my AIR2 for almost an entire dive without realizing it. It was a very difficult shore entry; rocky; lots of surge; low viz. I was thinking of all the other things I needed to remember, grabbed the closest reg, and started breathing. Much later, the primary reg sailed into my peripheral vision. After I wondered for a few moments how someone could have stuck an octo on my gear without telling me (the nerve of them!!!) I realized it was my main reg. I can't even protest that I was narced.

Yes, if I'd been more experienced I would have sensed the differences between my AIR2 and my SK25/550. I'm sure I would now. But the point is that the AIR2 breathed so easily and so effortlessly that I had no problem using it, controlling my buoyancy, monitoring my depth, etc. etc.

I mean, does the extra hose really bother you? I hardly notice mine, and that's with a 7' primary, bungied backup, BC inflator, drysuit inflator, and SPG.

Yes, I hate dangling things. I can't remember how many times (with rental gear) the octo has gotten loose from its tether, and I've had to take my attention off the more important things to try to stuff it back into the little doohicky. I suppose there are better systems, but that's been my experience. I was delighted to find out about the AIR2.

If I do real deep diving, wreck penetration, cave diving, etc. then of course I will make sure I have a 7' primary and a good solid octo backup. But I've been very happy with my AIR2 for recreational diving.

BTW, my son tried the AIR2 for an entire dive just to see how it breathed, and had no problems.

 

[love2godeep]

I still maintain that they're more likely to get to their backup air source sooner (although NetDoc's octo-under-the-chin is probably as good or better).!

I'd have to agree. I always know exactly where my AIR2 is.

I had an OOA situation once, due to faulty rental tank and gauges. I signaled to my buddy; she zoned on me and got catatonic. I had to locate her octo (which happened to be dragging and tangled in her gear) and stick it in my mouth. So that might be a potential danger of an AIR2-type secondary: If the person who has it can't figure out what to do to help an OOA buddy, it's going to be really hard for the OOA individual to grab the thing and breathe from it; but it could be done, I suppose, at least until the buddy regained his/her wits.

I'm not sure what the weight of the reg has to do with it ... seems to be more of a long-term comfort issue and, once they get the reg clamped in their mouth, you can bet it'll be gripped so tight that weight isn't an issue. All the other stuff ... stabilizing a buddy, controlling bouyancy, etc. seems to be the same between the two methods to me. IMHO NO real-life emergency ascent would be easy, no matter how rehearsed you are!

You have a good point, I think! But, as with the case of quite a few posting their opinions, mine is just an opinion. I haven't actually done an emergency ascent with a buddy breathing off my primary, so I can only postulate, based on the ease of breathing from an AIR2, that it would be no more difficult than with a regular octo.

 

[rescuediver009]

I don't doubt that people do know that their AIR2's work and that they are very competent with them. Hats off to you. You are much more competant that the average diver. I got my point across about diving with someone not as well versed as either of yourselves.
But I must say (LOL) I lost some respect for you when you mentioned that you dove with your AIR2 without knowing it. How did you adjust your buoyancy without cluing in?

 

[Stealth Turbo]

i use the sherwood shadow
best of both worlds if you ask me.
http://s1059kxm.leisurepro.com/weba...6&cgrfnbr=960&parentCategory=954&sort=prsdesc

 

[archman]

When I have to teach basic skills, I attach a Sherwood Minimus as a standard octo. It's the same reg as the Shadow, but not configured as an alternate air regulator. While the Minimus is very compact, it IS most definitely an octo reg. It's not as easy breathing off of as the AIR2. I'm also afraid I'm going to break the little thing someday!

 

[Brian Gilpin]

I was sitting at a fifteen ft safety stop in the Sea of Cortez earlier this month and I motioned to my buddy that I would like to do an out of air drill. I gave him my long hose and went to my bungeed backup. Everything was cool. We swam around and were quite comfy. Next he donated his short primary and went to his Air Xs. Talk about cramped. Says he is going to keep the AIRxs and go to long primary.

I see a similarity between the integrated inflator/reg systems and a bungeed backup in that without a long octo hose it becomes prudent to have a long primary to donate.