Pros and cons of "fixed" D rings in cold water

[Blackwood]

I can attest that sometimes all the training and practice in the world may not be enough to allow you to easily clip your SPG onto a flat D-ring in extremly cold water with hands that are chilled, numb and lacking in their normal dexterity.

Coldest I've been in was 41 degrees in wet gloves...

Seems to me that cold hands will if anything make the manipulation of the bolt-snap difficult. But as was mentioned, if you pull the SPG outwards (away from your hip), the d-ring sticks out. Unless you hit it, it's not going to lie flat of its own accord.

Pull, open gate, disengage d-ring, read, re-engage d-ring, close gate.

 

[Colliam7]

...still just asking "why not a fixed D ring?". ...I have heard no logical explanation other than "its not DIR".

No. That isn't a strong reason, anyway. Other than it is 'not streamlined', and there is a small increase in the risk of entanglement, go ahead with them. You may find your preferences change, but the cost of a fixed D-ring is trivial.

 

[caveandreas]

... You do lose some feel in near freezing water either due to cool hands and/or due to the dry gloves and liners. Either way it is not the same as using your bare hands in 70 degree water.

I use dry gloves on all my ordinary dives so I find it hard to belive it is so difficult to do it. It is of course easyer without gloves, but with training only marginally.

If you use the "boltsnap almost under the armpit" trick you will have an easyer time. (I understand that English beeing a foreign language will somewhat limit my details in my explanations) Having backup lights also make hiting the D-rings alot easyer.

On the hip I don't need special made kit too do the job, so i do not see why I want to add it. If it had been beneficial in someway I had possibly replace it.

 

[DocWong]

Although there are good arguments presented regarding the use of a fixed or bent D-ring, another important point of having a non-fixed hip D-ring, like all of the DIR configuration is consistency of gear in a team situation. If you're diving DIR which means you're diving with a cohesive and coordinated team, then the gear needs to be consistent.

If you don't intend to dive in a cohesive DIR team, then the concept of consistent gear configuration goes out the window, and so what if DIR frowns on it.

 

[RJP]

Although there are good arguments presented regarding the use of a fixed or bent D-ring, another important point of having a non-fixed hip D-ring, like all of the DIR configuration is consistency of gear in a team situation. If you're diving DIR which means you're diving with a cohesive and coordinated team, then the gear needs to be consistent.

If you don't intend to dive in a cohesive DIR team, then the concept of consistent gear configuration goes out the window, and so what if DIR frowns on it.

How far does the DIR approach of "consistent gear" really need to go? My take is that getting down to whether the hip D-ring is fixed or not is about at the level of mandating that all your gear must be black.

Oh, wait! Nevermind...

 

[DocWong]

How far does the DIR approach of "consistent gear" really need to go? My take is that getting down to whether the hip D-ring is fixed or not is about at the level of mandating that all your gear must be black.

Oh, wait! Nevermind...

Actually black is getting less and less common as it looks crappy in videos and photos!

Every diver has a certain quantity of "capacity" in the water. Even divers in a good DIR team will have different capacities or capabilities. In a DIR team, I've never run into a diver that had to have a fixed D-ring to be able to clip and unclip items.

When I did my Fundies course (Fundamentals of Diving course), I didn't like some of the configurations and equipment setups, but just decided to give it all a try and see how it all pans out. If in the end I didn't like something, I'd just change it. No one puts a spear gun to your head. :mooner:

But once I got trained in the system, it was amazing how the equipment and team diving worked to make coordination and fun easier. The more technical the dive, the more important the system was in allowing for a smooth, yet complicated dive.

When I dive with my non-DIR buddies, I expect to see all manner of equipment and configurations and as long as it's in the realm of sanity, I don't worry about it.

 

[RJP]

Every diver has a certain quantity of "capacity" in the water. Even divers in a good DIR team will have different capacities or capabilities. In a DIR team, I've never run into a diver that had to have a fixed D-ring to be able to clip and unclip items.

I hear what you're saying and believe me, I am usually one of the first people to decry a "gear solution to a skill problem." However that is usually because in those cases the "solution" typically is either suboptimal or actually has a negative impact somewhere else.

In this case though it just seems as if the DIR reason to NOT use a fixed D-ring is the fact that it IS easier. No it's not terribly hard without a fixed ring, but it is certainly easier WITH one, with effectively ZERO downside to using one.

Yesterday I finished my Tec 2 training, doing dive 12 off the NJ coast and I can tell you that while donning, doffing, and shuffling multiple stage and deco bottles in 45deg water for an hour at a clip, in snotty viz, in a current, with the ascent line jerking all over the place, there were probably a few times where I hit the D-ring first time simply because it was fixed. As my skills continue to progress perhaps I won't need that extra "margin of success" but I'm just not sure why I would change to something that's potentially harder in exchange for a solution to a separate problem that doesn't really exist. (eg: a fixed d-ring creates an entanglement/entrapment hazard.)

 

[JeffG]

Although there are good arguments presented regarding the use of a fixed or bent D-ring, another important point of having a non-fixed hip D-ring, like all of the DIR configuration is consistency of gear in a team situation. If you're diving DIR which means you're diving with a cohesive and coordinated team, then the gear needs to be consistent.

Using (or not using) a fixed D-ring would have no impact on diving with a cohesive and coordinated team. (or if you think it does...I would like to here it.)

They (bent D-Rings) increase the divers profile with an immovable object. Thats why they are not used.

The one on the hip makes you a bit bigger...but it would be a tight hole for its "fixedness" to come into play. (so tight...I wouldn't be there anyways)

 

[JeffG]

The one on the hip makes you a bit bigger...but it would be a tight hole for its "fixedness" to come into play. (so tight...I wouldn't be there anyways)

I suppose turning left through a doorway (or hole) the % chance of the fixed d-ring on the hip would be greater for hitting something.

Thats about all I can think of while I am cyber diving.

 

[RJP]

I suppose turning left through a doorway (or hole) the % chance of the fixed d-ring on the hip would be greater for hitting something.

Thats about all I can think of while I am cyber diving.

Guess it depends on how wide the diver's hips are.



As for me, my hip D-ring sits well inside the profile of my BP/wing, inflator bottle, doubles, shoulders, arms, etc