Proper Equipment for Deep Cold Water Diving

[Oldpirate]

I would still stress the imprtance of a totally separate air supply -- i.e a pony bottle. If you and your buddy are nearing the end of the dive, somewhat low on air, and you start to free flow, you're going to wish you had a fresh supply of air. If you start buddy breathing and the increased air flow (especially with the panic and stress that may be present) causes a 1st stage freeze on your buddy's rig, you're both SOL. Just sling a pony. Geez, why not? It's weightless in the water and gives tremendous peace of mind.

 

[jrockosaurus]

start with taking the snorkel off your mask. i dont take anyone serious who still dives with a snorkel.

 

[cerich]

start with taking the snorkel off your mask. i dont take anyone serious who still dives with a snorkel.

i dont see anyone who is serious not have a snorkel in the dive bag in case conditions look like it may be helpful on the surface(except cave divers)

 

[jrockosaurus]

i agree with the pony recommendation. you can keep eveything else the same in your current configuration and just add a pony and a cheap reg or get yourself a blizzard (which are pretty inexpensive themselves) and put your reg on your pony. Sling it and you'll hardly even notice its there. Just use it when you need it and you dont even need to put a spg on it at first.

 

[jrockosaurus]

i dont see anyone who is serious not have a snorkel in the dive bag in case conditions look like it may be helpful on the surface(except cave divers)

i said take it off your mask, not out of your bag. i have NEVER used a snorkel while diving. If the conditions are good, kick back and relax while at the surface, it theyre bad, then the snorkel wont do you any good anyways. just another piece of dangling equipment.

 

[diverbrian]

i dont see anyone who is serious not have a snorkel in the dive bag in case conditions look like it may be helpful on the surface(except cave divers)

Then again, I consider myself quite serious. My snorkel got lost a year ago and I use my brother's for classes where they make me have one. If conditions are rough on the surface, normally 500 psi or so left in a set of double 100's is more enough for me to breathe in rough conditions while I wait to board .

Still that point is minor as to gear issues. I don't feel one way or the other about divers having snorkels on their masks.

The Abyss regs should be fine. I personally prefer some sort of redundant breathing system (ie. a pony or doubles) even with a good dive buddy for the reasons that got mentioned. Even with good gas management mathematically, gas consumption tends to go up immensely in a true "situation". You have two stressed divers breathing off of one person's reg and it may freeflow. If that happens, you have a real issue. As well, I have a dive buddy that I trust as much as Paul trusts his wife.

Still, for both of our safety, I seldom dive without doubles when I dive with her. It just adds another layer of safety if Mr. Murphy were to strike. I trust her. I also trust Mr. Murphy to do his best to foul up her and me. I like to try to disappoint Mr. Murphy.

Paul, having dove with you and your lovely significant other, I know that Ber taught you well. You do have most of the training that you need. Your judgement was sound when I dove with you in some pretty murky conditions. Your buoyancy was great. If you want to do your first dives in these limits with someone, feel free to PM me and I would love to dive with you and your wife again. Ber will vouch for me in the deep diving department .

Oh, and the tip about getting drysuits and larger tank were on the money (in my not always so humble opinion ). You can get one of the E-series tanks that will work with your present regs (although I recommend using DIN connections) and would serve you well. Drysuits, well... I'll let you be the judge.

 

[bladephotog]

Sounds like what you have is perfectly fine to dive safely for the type of diving you are doing. I dove Whitefish Point last weekend, and for the second time in two years my buddy dove with similar setups as yours to nearly 130 on the Vienna. Both do have drysuits though.

Now we didn't do any penetration and I'm sure they feel more comfortable with me carrying doubles and redundant everything. But both are excellent divers who are not into tech diving. However, they've had good training and understand proper gas management.

My point is that proper training and not exceeding that training is more important than your gear, provided you have good gear to begin with, which it sounds like you do.

 

[jepuskar]

PC,

If diving a drysuit a steel tank is preferred as it is negative to start and negative to finish. For example, my Worthington Steel 100 is -9.5lbs to start, -2.5lbs completely empty, is shorter than an Aluminum 80, and it comes with a valve that can be used with DIN or Yoke regs. I keep it Yoke. Typical AL80's are -1lb to start and +4 or so at the end of the dive. The main difference is you will wear less weight. The added volume with a 100 is nice for the deeper dives and give you an extra margin for error. See below...


And yes, a 30cf pony is not redundant to a 80cf tank because of the size....if you had another 80cf tank than yes it would be redundant..but then just dive doubles...it wouldnt be called a pony, it would be called a Horse.

As far as the pony/no pony debate..... The reason oldpirate gave for a pony is poor. For one if you and your buddy are at the end of the dive and low on air than who's fault is that? You don't use a pony as an excuse to have poor dive planning or gas management skills. Also, since its the end of the dive I assume you are atleast above 30 feet....seeing its a recreational dive a direct slow ascent to the surface is not THAT big of a deal if no substantial air supply exists anymore.

Usually ponys are there to solve a problem due to poor diver judgement.

 

[Oldpirate]

Geez, jump all over a guy for his personal opinion and for trying to lend a little expertise. If this guy gets into trouble and doesn't have a pony, then you can take the rap for it. I have not had to breath off my pony bottle for 2 years -- but it's there for me or for a buddy if needed. I've been diving for 35 years and if there is one thing I know, it's that **** happens. Maybe you've never had to recover a diver's body off a deep wreck, but I have.

"Plan your dive and dive your plan" is a great way to operate, until something goes wrong. Then it's life of death. God bless you if everything's always gone according to your dive plan. Better to be prepared mentally and gear-wise for the possibility.

 

[diverbrian]

Geez, jump all over a guy for his personal opinion and for trying to lend a little expertise. If this guy gets into trouble and doesn't have a pony, then you can take the rap for it. I have not had to breath off my pony bottle for 2 years -- but it's there for me or for a buddy if needed. I've been diving for 35 years and if there is one thing I know, it's that **** happens. Maybe you've never had to recover a diver's body off a deep wreck, but I have.

"Plan your dive and dive your plan" is a great way to operate, until something goes wrong. Then it's life of death. God bless you if everything's always gone according to your dive plan. Better to be prepared mentally and gear-wise for the possibility.

While I am not a huge believer in pony bottles, it is because I nearly always dive large doubles. I will say one thing. I felt far more secure for my dive buddy that she had that AL40 filled with EAN30 slung on her right side than if she had been going down the Forest City boilers on on a single AL80 with me. If anything had happened to me and she had a freeflow in that time frame, at least she had a redundant air source. Was it likely? No. Was it possible? Yes!

That is why deep cold water divers like redundant air supplies. I am sorry if I don't believe that dive to 130 ft. within NDL's and staying out an overhead doesn't call for FULL redundancy (ie. doubles with deco gas and possibly two deco gases so that you can do your deco off of one or the other gas alone if one deco gas fails and you can't do deco off of the mix in doubles). An AL40 will get a diver back to the surface safely if they don't feel the need for (or want to carry the weight of; or have the money for) doubles on an NDL dive to 100-130 ft.

In other words, I back Old Pirate!