Primary donation

[Gerbs]

Part of the described situation assumed that BB was not possible. With PADI's removal of this skill, chances are higher that your buddy will be unable to do this in the future.

There is still the Buddy-breathing-by-alternate-primary-take method... don't want to go there, it's more dangerous than coordinated buddy breathing, but it may be enough buddy breathing to do something resembling an orderly ascend.

Gerbs

ps. Maybe the solution is to hide/camouflage the secondary, so only divers able to buddy breathe get paired up... but then again, how many divers would understand that they had to buddy breathe with that set-up...

 

[Gerbs]

Originally Posted by DCBC

So you have never experienced a hole in a second stage diaphragm before? You may do a careful pre-dive, but not everyone is so thorough Thal. If they were, they would never run-out of air in the first-place.

What is the big deal with a hole in the diaphragm anyway? That's what purge buttons are for... If you are calm (because you haven't been OOA for the last minute or so), then it's fairly simple to run a regulator manually. Happened to a friend of mine - his deco regulator failed, and he had to run on manual for half an hour until he could go onto 100% Oxygen in the shallows. :shocked2:

Must practice this again though (I have an old, damaged diaphragm somewhere)... been a while since I did this, last time I found I managed it quite well (Only had a few dozen dives then).

Gerbs

ps. There is always the inflator as well - press both for breathing fresh gas, press deflate only for 2 minutes to hypercapnia and a lung infection...

 

[lamont]

The long hose Hog looping concept does not deploy as quickly as the standard octopus configuration and is prone to entanglement. For open water sport diving I see no
reason to switch to a cave diving/overhead tech system.

So far, I've been involved in one successful OOA with a long hose, and seen the outcome of one fatality involving a failure to deploy a standard octo. So, I think I'm personally going with the octo not being faster and more reliable to deploy, and you not knowing anything about what you're talking about.

 

[lamont]

a complete loss of backgas by your 'buddy' AND your backup reg failing closed on the same dive?
ridiculously unlikely but not a huge deal. buddy breathe and surface.

I had a brand new stage regulator be fine for 4 dives as an O2 bottle at 20 feet and then fail so that it delivered water on the 5th dive when I swapped it onto stage bottle and took it down to 50 feet. If that had been my backup regulator, it would have passed gear checks fine at the surface, or even shallow skills+drills, but would have given a nasty surprise at depth if I needed to donate gas.

 

[DCBC]

...I don't see your approach to OOG any much more better than the primary donation one.

No problem. You're free to use any system that you feel comfortable with. I sincerely wish you all the best.

 

[DCBC]

And if they DON'T know how to...they have the rest of their life to figure it out.

I totally agree.

 

[DCBC]

What is the big deal with a hole in the diaphragm anyway? That's what purge buttons are for... If you are calm (because you haven't been OOA for the last minute or so), then it's fairly simple to run a regulator manually.

My point is that regulators fail; see Lamont's post #73 as an example.

There is always the inflator as well - press both for breathing fresh gas, press deflate only for 2 minutes to hypercapnia and a lung infection...

Yes. This is however largely dependent upon depth, how cooperative the buddy is (per my Deep Solo Wreck Dive post) and the amount of air available. I found your comment on the lung infection amusing; not something I'd be worried about at the time.

 

[InTheDrink]

No problem. You're free to use any system that you feel comfortable with. I sincerely wish you all the best.

Well quite. The reason I posted the thread was to get some input on pros and cons in both approaches and make an informed decision and ALL the inputs are very much appreciated. I've only recently started using necklace and
long hose but so far I like it, although part of that is probably the fact I've changed to miflex hoses.

I found your comment on the lung infection amusing; not something I'd be worried about at the time.

This always amuses me too. Weighing up drowning/AGE/DCS Vs possible chesty cough. Hmmm, now which one will I choose...

FYI - I caught my 4 yr old daughter inhaling from my inflated BC a couple of months back. She's a pretty quick learner and I'm pleased to report that she had no adverse effects. She's my non-exploding goat

J

 

[DCBC]

The reason I posted the thread was to get some input on pros and cons in both approaches and make an informed decision and ALL the inputs are very much appreciated. I've only recently started using necklace and long hose but so far I like it, although part of that is probably the fact I've changed to miflex hoses.

I think that's wise; do the research and make an informed choice. That's much better than just accepting X or Y as the correct answer.

After you deal with an OOA situation, you reassess what works for you each time you do it and readjust your procedures accordingly. I'm glad to see the thread gave you some different viewpoints.

 

[Gerbs]

My point is that regulators fail; see Lamont's post #73 as an example.

And my point was that the most common failure modes (with the exception of one) can be reduced in likelihood or, if you still calm, worked around.

Yes. This is however largely dependent upon depth, how cooperative the buddy is (per my Deep Solo Wreck Dive post) and the amount of air available. I found your comment on the lung infection amusing; not something I'd be worried about at the time.

Cooperative --> Buddy breathing; uncooperative --> I've got to find air somewhere so I don't have to do an ICBM-ascend towing a casualty. How would an uncooperative diver affect my breathing of an air source (secondary/pony/stage/inflator)? As for amount of air available... good point - this is the reason I want to know how much gas I got left at all times and also check my SPG for function before every dive.

As for the Lung infection... well, I do try for full disclosure... And this is one thing that may put people of practising breathing of their BCD which adds to the learning curve later.

Thank you very much by the way - I have actually learned a fair bit about the issues with primary vs secondary donate in this thread.

I think I'm going to have to start slinging a pony as a bailout either for myself or to hand over to unknown divers in case of emergency, and the doubles set so I can finally get to my valves without having to remove my BCD just moved up in purchasing priority.

Gerbs