Primary donation

[captain]

and like I said, this situation isn't likely to ever happen to anyone

Another one to add to the list of famous last words along with "hey guys, watch this".

 

[elan]

So which agency teaches primary take anyways ?

 

[StreetDoctor]

RJP for moderator!

I guess my words were taken out of context a bit also..

"If you aren't comfortable with a regulator not in your mouth for a few seconds you shouldn't be a certified diver."

I never said or meant you should give up diving, just that you need remedial training before you're unleashed on the public

 

[StreetDoctor]

So which agency teaches primary take anyways ?

None.

 

[Sas]

RJP for moderator!

I guess my words were taken out of context a bit also..

"If you aren't comfortable with a regulator not in your mouth for a few seconds you shouldn't be a certified diver."

I never said or meant you should give up diving, just that you need remedial training before you're unleashed on the public

Well I think if you had phrased it like that I wouldn't have said anything

 

[LiteHedded]

Another one to add to the list of famous last words along with "hey guys, watch this".

a complete loss of backgas by your 'buddy' AND your backup reg failing closed on the same dive?
ridiculously unlikely but not a huge deal. buddy breathe and surface.

 

[Gombessa]

a complete loss of backgas by your 'buddy' AND your backup reg failing closed on the same dive?
ridiculously unlikely but not a huge deal. buddy breathe and surface.

Not if you're James Cameron

The Deco Stop

Though I imagine the initial OOG is inexcusable for a real diver

 

[LiteHedded]

Not if you're James Cameron

The Deco Stop

Though I imagine the initial OOG is inexcusable for a real diver

i was just reading that.
it's pretty funny.

 

[DCBC]

You can keep changing the hypo by pouring on additional failures (OOG diver, broken backup, inability to buddy breathe), but it really seems like a lot of these problems should have been discovered and/or prevented before the dive even begins.

I agree. We each retain an ability to not dive if the people around us are not up to our standards. With the advent of PADI's position not to teach buddy breathing, I think it's fair to surmise that the majority of divers being certified will not know how. This is a skill that may be lost in-time, in a similar way to valve breathing off a tank without a regulator (an ability that use to be common-place). How's that for a redundant regulator?

As you will see from my Deep Solo Wreck Diver Post, I had to deal with two OOA divers at the same time. It has been my experience that sometimes when things go south. It cascades. It's easy to say that " a lot of these problems should have been detected/prevented before the dive begins," but that's not always the case. That's why we train for the eventuality.

 

[DCBC]

Originally Posted by DCBC
3. The OOA Diver will either ask to buddy breath, or do a CESA.

A somewhat panicked CESA is most likely.

Yes the penalty for not being trained in buddy breathing.


Originally Posted by DCBC
4. The OOA Diver is unencumbered; he simply drops the non-functioning secondary and does a CESA.

Somehow, I doubt that.

I don't know why you doubt it, the diver has nothing to breath and will likely panic as you've already pointed-out.

#2 In your scenario
1. The OOA Diver has air and does not need to get to the surface.
2. You (the Rescuer) finds a non-functioning Secondary.

Rather unlikely with a necklaced second or an inflator style unit.

Again, Murphy's Law.


Originally Posted by DCBC
3. You will either ask to buddy breath, or do a CESA.

If we BB, fine ... if I have to CESA us both, fine.

Not fine Thal.

Originally Posted by DCBC
4. If a CESA is required, you are encumbered.

Yea, by the victim whom I want to keep with me.

Right you are going to do a CESA while bringing him to the surface. Have you ever done this before? Not a CESA, a CESA while managing a victim?

Originally Posted by DCBC View Post
5. Trying to retrieve the only functioning regulator may result in both divers drowning.

I don't know that I'd bother.

Originally Posted by DCBC
6. Alternatively, you could attempt to remove your kit and make a CESA yourself.

Naw, I'll keep a hold of the victim.

Right.

Originally Posted by DCBC
7. The OOA Diver may not be able to closely follow you to the surface (suited with a non-functioning BC and an operational one in his hands).

What BC's not working, and why does that matter? You can always drop a belt.

Sure you can hold your breath for 20 mins. Why not just complete the dive. Come on Thal.


Originally Posted by DCBC View Post
Personally, I'm going to pick Door #1.

My only issue here is the only times that I've found that thing I need badly to be non-functional is when it had been recently checked and was badly needed at that instant. I think that's one of Murphy's Laws.

I don't use a necklace aux, but I think the argument that they do not tend to fail is sound. They do not get dragged in the mud and if they freeflow, you know it right away.

So you have never experienced a hole in a second stage diaphragm before? You may do a careful pre-dive, but not everyone is so thorough Thal. If they were, they would never run-out of air in the first-place.