Primary donation

[RJP]

Hopefully your "Technical Diver" buddy, knows how to buddy breathe.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that any tech diver with even rudimentary tech training and skills (I'm talking about someone who's ACTUALLY a tech diver, not someone who's done 24 dives and then read on SB that he should buy a BP/W over the phone from Tobin.) will be able to buddy breathe with very little problem - even if they've never been trained to do so. It's really not that hard.

And if they DON'T know how to...they have the rest of their life to figure it out.

:shocked2:

 

[Sas]

Hmmm.

I equate donation with controlled.
I equate take with panicked.

Whilst well trained divers might cluster around the first, I'd certainly never think that panic is the exclusive preserve of the inexperienced or untrained.

J

Well yea I agree no one is immune from panic, and when I have had inexperienced people go out of air, they have not paniced but generally at higher levels of training you get more practice at this such as having your air turned off, or your reg pulled out, or having to buddy breathe and so on. I didn't have these things in earlier training (other than my reg pulled out in OW course). For example a course I am doing now, has simulated failures where you get your reg taken out or air turned off and have to signal to your buddy to get air (7' hog looped primary is the recommended equipment...) rather than swim up and take it out of their mouth. There's also exercises with OOA emergencies and getting your mask taken away so there's swimming maskless whilst buddy breathing and reeling in line. That's more what I meant about how you're supposed to be able to handle OOA failures and more task loading at higher levels of training than basic OW/AOW courses.

 

[StreetDoctor]

Where I could see an issue is with a diver who is uncomfortable without a reg in their mouth for a few seconds. Typically this might be a new diver or infrequent diver. The ability to exchange long hose to backup and vice versa needs to be practiced frequently. Without the practice there is the possibility that the donor could end up without an air source and perhaps panic.

For regular divers who practice regularly this is a non issue but infrequent divers are possible grounds for concern for this and many other reasons.

With any sort of air sharing there are 2 parts - the kit and the procedures that go with it. Kit is very rarely the issue - lack of practice or familiarity with the procedure is usually the cause for concern.

If you aren't comfortable with a regulator not in your mouth for a few seconds you shouldn't be diving at all.

 

[RJP]

If you aren't comfortable with a regulator not in your mouth for a few seconds you shouldn't be diving at all.

You shouldn't have even received a c-card...

 

[Sas]

If you aren't comfortable with a regulator not in your mouth for a few seconds you shouldn't be diving at all.

Well no, lots of people are not comfortable with certain skills in the beginning, no need to be so harsh towards them. They should get more instruction or training in controlled conditions so they are more comfortable and can handle being regless for a few seconds. If I had given up diving when I couldn't handle my mask being off, I would have missed out on nearly two years of some of the most amazing experiences of my life.

 

[StreetDoctor]

If I had given up diving when I couldn't handle my mask being off, I would have missed out on nearly two years of some of the most amazing experiences of my life.

You shouldn't have even received a c-card...

Are you implying at one point you were a certified diver and could not handle being maskless?

 

[Sas]

Are you implying at one point you were a certified diver and could not handle being maskless?

Define 'could not handle'. I was very uncomfortable without my mask in in the first 10-15 dives but I did not experience being maskless (unintentionally) within that period to know how I would have reacted. I spent a lot of time post certification getting comfortable with being maskless. If I had not bothered then I would have missed out on a lot of fun. Now I am very comfortable without a mask and have done long periods on dives without a mask but in the beginning, no it was a horrible experience.

 

[StreetDoctor]

If I had given up diving when I couldn't handle my mask being off, I would have missed out on nearly two years of some of the most amazing experiences of my life.

Define 'could not handle'. I was very uncomfortable without my mask in in the first 10-15 dives but I did not experience being maskless (unintentionally) within that period to know how I would have reacted. I spent a lot of time post certification getting comfortable with being maskless. If I had not bothered then I would have missed out on a lot of fun. Now I am very comfortable without a mask and have done long periods on dives without a mask but in the beginning, no it was a horrible experience.

You define it, you said it. To me, "could not handle" means exactly that. You couldn't handle it so you would bolt to the surface, or not allow your mask to be taken off. Both of which should be reasons to not recieve a C-card and get remedial training. I'm not trying to attack you personally. I believe it's just pretty dangerous to be certified to depths up to 60' as an open water certified diver and not be comfortable if you lost your mask.

 

[Sas]

You define it, you said it. To me, "could not handle" means exactly that. You couldn't handle it so you would bolt to the surface, or not allow your mask to be taken off. Both of which should be reasons to not recieve a C-card and get remedial training. I'm not trying to attack you personally. I believe it's just pretty dangerous to be certified to depths up to 60' as an open water certified diver and not be comfortable if you lost your mask.

Well I agree that it is dangerous to not be comfortable with certain skills, I never said otherwise. Which is why (if you refer to my initial post) I said:

They should get more instruction or training in controlled conditions so they are more comfortable and can handle being regless for a few seconds.

You implied that people should give up diving if they can't do certain skills... Lots of people start scuba with serious deficiencies in certain skills area, doesn't mean that they should give up diving. I passed all my skills on my OW dives and was passed, but I was not comfortable and which is why I spent a lot of time after OW trying to get comfortable in shallow water doing mask remove and replacements. Other people might presume if they are passed they are fine and that is not their fault but their instructor's fault, who should spend more time with them getting them comfortable.

But as I said, it is a bit harsh to tell people to give up diving without exploring other options first.

 

[RJP]

Are you implying at one point you were a certified diver and could not handle being maskless?

I think you guys are vehemently agreeing with each other...



Saspotato is engaging in a bit of dramatic hyperbole when saying she "couldn't handle" being maskless. Perhaps she didn't LIKE it, and would prefer NOT to experience it, but obviously she could HANDLE it.

StreetDoctor, responding to her choice of terminology, is correctly pointing out that "can't handle" is in direct conflict and completely incompatible with the standards of any agency. On the other hand, the standards do not state that you must RELISH the idea of being maskless.