Preventing mask loss vs a spare

[Pavao]

I was having dinner with several old diving mates and the subject of carrying a spare mask came up. The group has a lot of experience diving in harsh conditions all over the world — military, commercial, and open-sea Scuba. The “young guy” has only been diving 27 years. After some bantering, it turns out that none of us has ever lost a mask.

1 & 2 are a good case for finding a method to insure not losing your mask in the first place. I’m not condemning carrying a spare mask, only investigating a better solution to the root problem.

I don't get it, I thought you had already come to the conclusion on the first post that losing a mask is a really rare thing.

JamesK made a good point, it's not necessarily losing a mask the only problem, breaking it would be a much worse scenario, mask has come off my face, maybe more than once, but I can still see it floating away and be able to grab and put it back on, but if it's broken, then only a new one would solve the problem, that's why I always carry a spare on my pocket.

I have seen once, and heard of another similar case too, where someone went to clear a mask and simply blew one of lens right off the frame, the mask was probably damaged prior to the dive, but none the less, in both cases they managed to conduct the dive for some time before the mask finally broke.

My primary is a frameless mask, my back up is a really small mask that takes little space in my pocket, and of course fits me. Strap goes on outside of the hood.

 

[SWAMPY459]

I have lost a mask during a dive in an overhead and let me tell you it SUCKED.

I will not dive without one now. nope. not ever. never again. There is ALWAYS a spare mask in my pocket.

one for the team would suffice, but I will be the one carrying it.

 

[Akimbo]

I don't get it, I thought you had already come to the conclusion on the first post that losing a mask is a really rare thing...

Having a cylinder explode on your back is also rare thing but that doesn't deter us from hydro-testing cylinders. The part following the segment you quoted explains the reasons for the post.

... After some bantering, it turns out that none of us has ever lost a mask. Knee-jerk conclusion: No reason to carry a spare.

A few glasses of wine later and the sea-stories started surfacing where losing a mask would have been a big problem and what care was exercised to avoid it. ...

…JamesK made a good point, it's not necessarily losing a mask the only problem, breaking it would be a much worse scenario, mask has come off my face, maybe more than once, but I can still see it floating away and be able to grab and put it back on, but if it's broken, then only a new one would solve the problem, that's why I always carry a spare on my pocket...

How do you protect the spare mask from damage? I have crushed a lot of delicate bits in pockets.

Every safety decision is ultimately based on probabilities. I think it is fair to say that losing an untethered mask is hundreds to thousands of times more likely than having it break underwater. As I have discovered, I have found tethering the mask to be quite convenient.

 

[Redshift]

Having a cylinder explode on your back is also rare thing but that doesn’t deter us from hydro-testing cylinders. The part following the segment you quoted explains the reasons for the post.

On our backs no, but when being filled it's a different story. That's why they are tested.

How do you protect the spare mask from damage? I have crushed a lot of delicate bits in pockets.

Every safety decision is ultimately based on probabilities. I think it is fair to say that losing an untethered mask is hundreds to thousands of times more likely than having it break underwater. As I have discovered, I have found tethering the mask to be quite convenient.

Of course that pockets are not sturdy enough to protect delicate items, but masks are not that delicate and divers tend not to be fighting underwater. May be different when working...
And as you say, it's a question of probabilities. What's the probability of loosing / damaging the first mask and damaging the backup one as well?
And talking about probabilities, although you throw in the air that "hundreds to thousands", it's interesting that the people who posted here have had more cases of damaged mask than lost mask. It's a small sample, but it is a sample. And a mask being pulled / kicked / whatever away doesn't immediately disappear, it's still there to be grabbed and put back on. A broken mask needs replacement.

 

[scubadada]

I'm as or more paranoid than any of you. I have a backup computer and SPG for my wireless AI computer. I have never considered a backup mask and am not considering one now. One has to draw the line somewhere. Backup fins??

 

[Pavao]

Without your mask, all your instruments are useless, primary or back ups won't do you no good.
Losing a fin does sucks, but you're right, line has to be drawn somewhere, kinda of unpractical to carry spare fins, a mask though, fits comfortably and safe in my pocket.

I do not need fins to control my buoyancy and perform decompression stops, but I most definitely need to see.
I do not need fins to crawl my way out of a wreck/cave, but I most definitely need to see.

That's where I draw my line.

I'm as or more paranoid than any of you. I have a backup computer and SPG for my wireless AI computer. I have never considered a backup mask and am not considering one now. One has to draw the line somewhere. Backup fins??

 

[Akimbo]

In my case, "the line" meanders based on the dive profile. This whole exercise started somewhat cynically in response to newly popular requirements and recommendations to carry a spare mask in several different dive profiles. The results of the experiment surprised me since I found the tethered mask a convenience. Each diver must analyze their circumstances and dive profiles to decide what suits their comfort level.

Personally, a dive that is so demanding that losing a mask would be life threatening leads me to the conclusion that Scuba is not the appropriate choice. There comes a time where surface supplied or full saturation is the right option.

 

[Mike.D]

In my case, “the line” meanders based on the dive profile. This whole exercise started somewhat cynically in response to newly popular requirements and recommendations to carry a spare mask in several different dive profiles. The results of the experiment surprised me since I found the tethered mask a convenience. Each diver must analyze their circumstances and dive profiles to decide what suits their comfort level.

Personally, a dive that is so demanding that losing a mask would be life threatening leads me to the conclusion that Scuba is not the appropriate choice. There comes a time where surface supplied or full saturation is the right option.

Wouldn't any deco dive be potentially life threatening if you've lost your mask?
Applying your logic to this would mean that any/all deco dives is not a suitable choice for scuba.

I dive in temperate open ocean environments and I still carry a spare mask just in case.
If my computer fails, I only have a stopwatch to time any deco obligation/safety stop and I thumb the dive.
Lose a fin, thumb the dive
SPG failure, thumb the dive
Lose a mask, replace with spare pocket mask and thumb the dive (safety now I can read my instruments)
Each to his own

-Mike


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[John C. Ratliff]

I have a couple of comments about loss of the mask. First, I have, and I'll detail that below. Second, I have been through the U.S. Navy School for Underwater Swimmers in Key West, and through their pool harassment. My buddy, Bob Means and I simple took off our masks and handed them to the Navy instructors who were doing the pool harassment--it took away one thing they could do to us. We didn't use our masks at all during that pool harassment time. Then we simply were side-by-side watching out for our manifold, so as soon as an instructor turned off my or Bob's air, we turned it back on. They had to physically haul us to the surface to get us there. We were USAF, and so it was fun to confound the U.S. Navy.

When I was a USAF Pararescueman, we made parascuba jumps, and always jumped with our mask behind our necks and the strap between our teeth or simply around our neck backwards. We put the mask on correctly when we entered the water and got out of the parachute harness.

The one time I have lost my mask, we were on the surface swimming to shore when we were rolled by a 15-20 foot breaker off the Oregon coast at Otter Crest. The results of that were a 3-4 hour wait outside the breaker line, and being picked up by the U.S. Coast Guard. The wave took the mask off my head even though it was under a whitewater kayaker's helmet.

Today, I dive rivers so loosing a mask is not catastrophic. I wear a bicycle helmet too over the mask with my snorkel attached to the helmet.

A couple of observations from 50+ years of diving. There wasn't as much of a problem when I first started diving, as we had the hood mahde out of neoprene and the mask strap out of rubber. They stuck to each other. Now, the hood has a nylon outside, and some of you are using nylon/neoprene mask straps, and other straps are made of silicone rubber; these are pretty slick combinations. I like the ice hockey mask strap attachment; ice hockey is a competitive sport sanctioned by CMAS (the World Underwater Federation), and has specialized equipment. Masks used to have metal rings to hold the glass in the mask; now this is plastic, and more likely to break.

SeaRat

 

[boulderjohn]

Wouldn't any deco dive be potentially life threatening if you've lost your mask?
Applying your logic to this would mean that any/all deco dives is not a suitable choice for scuba.

In my technical training, we spent a lot of time working on blind decompression stops. This usually--not always--assumes you have a buddy who can see. On one of my training dives, the instructor took both our primary and backup masks, thus simulating the loss of 4 masks. We completed our (simulated) decompression stops just fine.

A agree with Akimbo--the decision to carry a spare mask or not is one each person must make depending upon the circumstances of the dive and personal comfort levels with the amount of risk on the planned dives. I carried one the last two days, but I didn't even consider it on the previous 50 dives or so.