Predator air integration?

[boulderjohn]

I never said it was for tech

The Shearwater predator is a tech computer, and most of its features have no function in the recreational sport diving community. By naming that computer, you implied that you meant tech.

A lot of people in this thread have used the term "failure point." I would respectfully submit that this is not the proper term. The proper term is "failure pointS." Like all tech computers, the Predator follows multiple gases. If I am diving with, say, back gas and three other bottles with three different mixes, the Predator tracks them all. If it is a fully functioning AI computer, I will need a transmitter on each one of those tanks. That's 4 transmitters that could break if I hit something with them. That's 4 transmitters that have to synch properly to the computer without getting mixed up. But 4 isn't the limit on the Predator--it could be more.

And what would I gain from all of that? How would my dive experience be better? Can you list the benefits that would make all that worthwhile?

Now think of it from Shearwater's point of view. To make a multi-gas/multiple transmitter AI addition to the Predator would take an enormous increase in technology. It would take a lot of expensive research and development, costing them a whole lot of money. The final product would be much more expensive than the current version. So now how to they market a much more expensive computer that adds multiple failure points while providing no real benefit to the tech diving community?

 

[Wookie]

Let me answer this a different way. The Shearwater Predator is built to perform a certain function, and appeal to a certain diver. The target audience isn't someone looking for Air Integration, that market is well serviced by Uwatec, Oceanic, Cochran and others. The target audience for a Predator is someone looking for a computer that is safe, easy to use, intuitive (someone recently handed me a Luna and I couldn't even figure out how to set the gas) and easy for us geezers to see the display. Or bright enough to read a book by.

I run a liveaboard dive boat. We offer a certain product and a particular price point. Our product isn't for everybody, in fact, it isn't for the majority of divers. If I want to appeal to the majority, I'd rip a bunch of bunks out, put in in-suite heads, and go compete with Explorer Ventures or Aggressor. Know what? They would thrash me soundly and send me home to mama. Shearwater and I have found our niche markets and we service them as best we can. I don't want to compete in anyone else's market.

 

[Liftman]

Your experience in overhead environments would have been germane to this conversation.

Still don't understand what my experience in overhead environments has to do with trying to have a rational conversation about AI not being the seed of the devil as "tech divers" would have everyone think

You told us that we were closed minded and fear mongering by not embracing the AI wave of the future.

never said its the wave of the future, I said its here why not use it just as you would use any other tool. Conditions permitting of course. If you're worried you're going to snap it off why wouldn't you take measures to prevent that for example

You don't have to. It's manufacturer has said it is for tech. In bold on the front of their website, "

Shearwater Research designs and manufactures dive
computers for the most demanding technical divers."​

thank you for pointing out the obvious. But if you cared to actually read what I said and not just infer that I was referring to using this for tech we might find we're closer to the same book. But tech divers need to get past tech being the end all be all

Good, we're not.

you coulda fooled me, look all he was certified ssi, he probably hasn't been on a "real wreck"

No, we're not. But Bruce and Lynn both post on this (and all other) forum(s) with their real names and participate actively in conversations about their product.

That's good to hear, that a manufacturer is involved closely with their customers. and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think its up to them to decide to add AI. And it should be no skin off anyones back if they decide to betray the faith, blaspheme on the tech gods themselves and add it to maybe pick up a little more of the market with an advanced product like that. But hey what do I know, that's why people smarter than me run businesses.

Do you struggle to be disagreed with in your real life as well?

No I don't as a matter of fact, but I do have issues when people blatantly diss regard reason and continue to spout the same tired and sad songs

So you thought about taking your ball and going home but you decided to leave your ball and leave? I'm sorry this didn't go the way you had it played out in your mind.

Yeah I thought about it but I'd rather others see, even as futile as it is, the same here it is again brace your selfs closed minded news and failure to reason and listen to others and hear what they are actually saying.

Please enlighten me with fact, not hearsay how often the evil AI fails and please provide comparison to how many SPG failures. I'll bet averaging, over the years, more SPGs have caused shortened dives. Either way, if either one fails you're going to do the right thing and abort the dive.

 

[boulderjohn]

Either way, if either one fails you're going to do the right thing and abort the dive.

There is a big difference between aborting a recreational dive at 80 feet and heading to the surface and aborting a dive at 250 feet while 2000 feet back in a cave with a series of decompression stops ahead of you.

 

[Wookie]

Yeah I thought about it but I'd rather others see, even as futile as it is, the same here it is again brace your selfs closed minded news and failure to reason and listen to others and hear what they are actually saying.

Please enlighten me with fact, not hearsay how often the evil AI fails and please provide comparison to how many SPG failures. I'll bet averaging, over the years, more SPGs have caused shortened dives. Either way, if either one fails you're going to do the right thing and abort the dive.

If I go to MacDonalds for a nice rib-eye and they choose not to make me one, am I being closed minded? Are they? No, they don't serve that need folks have. I also don't go to Mortons for their excellent french fries. If you bang your fist on the counter of said MacDonalds demanding a rib-eye, they will come for you. Other patrons will tell you that MacDonalds doesn't serve rib-eyes. Will you call them closed minded too? You are, after all in a restaurant, and you are hungry, and you have enough to afford a rib-eye. Shouldn't they make you a rib-eye? They are in the business of feeding folks, and you are damned hungry. Now, you can request (as you have done here) that MacDonalds put rib-eyes on the menu, but if you only find 2 other folks (out of 19 respondents) that also want a rib-eye from MacDonalds, they probably aren't going to get too excited about ordering 2 1/2 million rib-eyes and develop the cooking process for making steaks.

YMMV

 

[ktomlinson]

I did not take it as condescending. As an author who tries hard to say exactly what I mean in print I took offense to it. I have an editor. I compensate her to edit my writing because I trust her to act in my best interests knowing me and what I want to say. I would rather have my posts here on SB removed rather than edited or "fixed" without my permission. Ask the mods who have had to deal with me.

As for the reference to Gary's book it was to illustrate the principles that have been guiding this area for quite a long time. Some choose not to refer to it as Hogarthian. I do myself, but other's do not so it is not a universally accepted term.

---------- Post Merged at 03:25 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 03:25 PM ----------

I truly didn't mean to offend you. I have often read your posts and do respect what you say. This thread has now taken a turn for the worse. I did start a new thread about AI of you'd like to stop by, it's going ok right now.

 

[mathauck0814]

Please enlighten me with fact, not hearsay how often the evil AI fails and please provide comparison to how many SPG failures. I'll bet averaging, over the years, more SPGs have caused shortened dives. Either way, if either one fails you're going to do the right thing and abort the dive.

You keep coming back to this as though it's an AI OR SPG decision. You're going to have the SPG either way (right?) so the decision is AI vs. a flat plug in an HP port. Given the two options, I'll take the likelihood that the flat hex plug won't fail as often as the transmitter. Or are you suggesting that I not dive with a SPG at all and rely solely on the AI transmitter...

 

[Liftman]

If I go to MacDonalds for a nice rib-eye and they choose not to make me one, am I being closed minded? Are they? No, they don't serve that need folks have. I also don't go to Mortons for their excellent french fries. If you bang your fist on the counter of said MacDonalds demanding a rib-eye, they will come for you. Other patrons will tell you that MacDonalds doesn't serve rib-eyes. Will you call them closed minded too? You are, after all in a restaurant, and you are hungry, and you have enough to afford a rib-eye. Shouldn't they make you a rib-eye? They are in the business of feeding folks, and you are damned hungry. Now, you can request (as you have done here) that MacDonalds put rib-eyes on the menu, but if you only find 2 other folks (out of 19 respondents) that also want a rib-eye from MacDonalds, they probably aren't going to get too excited about ordering 2 1/2 million rib-eyes and develop the cooking process for making steaks.

YMMV

I totally agree with you here and your last post. But that's not where I'm coming from as far as being closed minded. Obviously I'd love to see shearwater do it but like I said its their decision. I just think it would be an incredible piece of equipment.

My closed minded reference is the fact that it gets shunned like a whore in church, but it' always the same ol unfounded arguments about it failing save some circumstances, that everyone just keeps latching onto and won't/cant see anything but what they've been holding onto. And even when pointed out its still like trying to convince someone that 2+2=4. Err wait, is that right? Let me check my computer. The Internet won't lie.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

I've never seen the need for AI. Absolutely, completely overrated and nonessential IMO. An unneeded and far from reliable failure point. You asked for our opinions and you're getting them. Poll is speaking for itself.

---------- Post Merged at 07:35 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 07:32 PM ----------

I totally agree with you here and your last post. But that's not where I'm coming from as far as being closed minded. Obviously I'd love to see shearwater do it but like I said its their decision. I just think it would be an incredible piece of equipment.

My closed minded reference is the fact that it gets shunned like a whore in church, but it' always the same ol unfounded arguments about it failing save some circumstances, that everyone just keeps latching onto and won't/cant see anything but what they've been holding onto. And even when pointed out its still like trying to convince someone that 2+2=4. Err wait, is that right? Let me check my computer. The Internet won't lie.

Perhaps you're the one trying to make a square peg fit a round hole? You seem dead set on it being the next best thing since sliced bread. Like alot of folks, I absolutely disagree.

 

[Liftman]

You keep coming back to this as though it's an AI OR SPG decision. You're going to have the SPG either way (right?) so the decision is AI vs. a flat plug in an HP port. Given the two options, I'll take the likelihood that the flat hex plug won't fail as often as the transmitter. Or are you suggesting that I not dive with a SPG at all and rely solely on the AI transmitter...

No sorry, maybe I missed that, I personally use a SPG with my AI. Redundant? Yes. But that's my thing I like redundancy. Have I added another point of failure? Yup guilty as charged. Flame on. I won't tell you to run one but I'm not going to tell you not either. That's your call.