Pony tanks Good or Bad? - POLL

[Big-t-2538]

I'm still of the opinion that Pony's for team diving are utterly useless..

Since I dive with teams/buddy's all the time...well, you have my answer.

 

[NEWreckDiver]

Based on this story, first in my book you acted appropriately. In regards to the search for your buddy, you made a reasonable attempt to find him yourself and then you passed the search off to the DM. Your first responsibility is to yourself. He new the plan and decided to dive outside of the plan. You do not want two victims.

I personally carry a pony bottle with me on any on singles dive over 60 feet. As you can see, things happen that you simply cannot plan for. (dive boats require it up here) But, only you can decide how you dive. It is up to you to take what happen and learn from it. I know I have and I think I am a better diver for it.

You get an A+ for problem management from me.

 

[Dive Source]

Brian... I wasn't scolding you for selling ponies... I just forgot to put in the :tongueincheekelbowtorib: smilie

LOL - Wow are those smilies available? they're obviously only available to moderators.

I was looking for these ones if you know where to find them:

:babydiverwithpacifier:
:babydiverstampingfoot:
:getyourheadoutofyourbutt:
:youcouldntfindyourbuttwithbothhands:
:Iknoweverythinggrin:
:legendinmyownmind:



Other ideas encouraged.....

Hold on ...I'm hijacking my own thread...no your not...yes you are...who asked you...Oh your always right aren't you...mom liked you better you twit...Make them stop!...ahhhhhh...

 

[diverlady]

These are the issues I think the poll is asking me to consider:

1) Do I think that there is a place for pony tanks in diving in general? (not just the type of diving I choose to do but looking at diving as a whole.)
Yes. I think there are definitely times when a pony bottle would be necessary. (ie solo-diving)

2) Do I think that having a pony bottle on a dive on the dive is a good thing?
Yes, if used correctly and I mean not where the diver is extending bottom-time with the use of a pony but as an emergency, back-up air source.

Diverlady

 

[MikeFerrara]

What is planned, and the reality of a dive gone wrong can be too far apart to not carry a pony. Some will say I should have been diving doubles. I planned a dive that didn't need doubles. I planned a dive that didn't need a pony. Only after a diver getting narced and off plan, did that contention come into play. That could have happened in 60' and a thorough search could have required doubles. Not going to happen. A pony is not a crutch to knowledgeable divers - it is a tool. A tool just as important as an H-valve, sheers, and reel.

This thread was about the merits of steel tanks as stages and your post seems to be about the merits of pony bottles but I'll respond and then try to figure out if we should move these two posts to the other thread.

In one breath you say that you didn't need doubles and in the other you point out that you barely had enough gas.

You didn't state the max depth (or I missed it) or the size of the tank but I personally don't do dive that deep with a single tank. The more gas you have the more time you have to solve a problem. IMO, screwing up your configuration for a few extra cubic feet isn't the solution and might not be enough extra on a deep dive anyway.

Also the rule of thirds represents the most liberal gas plan that we use when the dive calls for the rule of thirds.

In this case you should have planned to start your ascent gas for two divers and managed the rest as potentially usable (halves or thirds depending on how important it was to get back to the line). Without knowing the depth or the tank size I can't say how close you were to doing that.

When the rule of thirds is called for we calculate thirds after ascent/decompression gas for 2 people is subtracted not before.

Another point I'll make is that I don't plan dives past 100 ft as no-stop dives unless it's clear that I'm going to have a multilevel dive with little time at max depth. I may be in the minority here but it has worked for me and I don't end up rushed.

Dive how you want of course but we dive more together. It helps us to not have to run around looking for each other. I know that can be hard if the other diver doesn't play nice.

 

[mempilot]

Based on this story, first in my book you acted appropriately. In regards to the search for your buddy, you made a reasonable attempt to find him yourself and then you passed the search off to the DM. Your first responsibility is to yourself. He new the plan and decided to dive outside of the plan. You do not want two victims.

I personally carry a pony bottle with me on any on singles dive over 60 feet. As you can see, things happen that you simply cannot plan for. (dive boats require it up here) But, only you can decide how you dive. It is up to you to take what happen and learn from it. I know I have and I think I am a better diver for it.

You get an A+ for problem management from me.

Thank you. I didn't have a very good night last night pondering the 'what if's'. I am going to adopt your rule and start carrying a pony on the 60 and deeper dives. If some 'tech diver' wants to snicker, so be it. I don't see a 30 or 40 cft pony slung or tucked to the side of a single a risk to me in the diving I do. People who say back mounting is risky - doubles are much more bulky and pose a higher rick of entanglement than a slim pony. I'll dive the doubles when needed for backgas. I'll dive the pony when needed for emergencies. So for now, it will be going with.

 

[mempilot]

disregard, see below.

 

[mddolson]

I voted Good.
I think a pony tank is a good alternative to an Octopus,
particulary to a single tank sport diver.
It has a couple of advantages, the two primary being an independant and redundant air supply.
The diver's use of the primary air supply does not effect the amount of reserve, nor does a primary system failure effect the back up supply.

To this end I want to qualify, that a pony tank does not replace nor reduce the importance of propper air supply monitoring, mangement, and use the buddy system.

Mike Dolson
NAUI 4780, PADI 202288

Recently in this thread titled Which pony is best? a fairly spirited discussion has been taking place about pony bottles, spare airs etc.

While there seems to be several strong opinions both for and against I want to know the general consenses/opinion to a simple question without lecture or intimidation from either side.

Do you think pony bottles are a good idea - Yes or No?

Lets see what the silent majority has to say and since you can only vote once, the thread should be safe from hi-jack.

if you want to continue the debate - the other thread is still hot so go for it.

 

[drbill]

Although I have never had an occasion to use mine while I was wearing it, I had an experience where I absolutely needed it and wasn't wearing it. Since most of my diving is solo, I now carry one on all planned dives deeper than 40 ft. I often carry it when I'm diving with a buddy as well.

Dr. Bill

 

[mempilot]

In one breath you say that you didn't need doubles and in the other you point out that you barely had enough gas.

You didn't state the max depth (or I missed it) or the size of the tank but I personally don't do dive that deep with a single tank. The more gas you have the more time you have to solve a problem. IMO, screwing up your configuration for a few extra cubic feet isn't the solution and might not be enough extra on a deep dive anyway.

Also the rule of thirds represents the most liberal gas plan that we use when the dive calls for the rule of thirds.

In this case you should have planned to start your ascent gas for two divers and managed the rest as potentially usable (halves or thirds depending on how important it was to get back to the line). Without knowing the depth or the tank size I can't say how close you were to doing that.

When the rule of thirds is called for we calculate thirds after ascent/decompression gas for 2 people is subtracted not before.

Another point I'll make is that I don't plan dives past 100 ft as no-stop dives unless it's clear that I'm going to have a multilevel dive with little time at max depth. I may be in the minority here but it has worked for me and I don't end up rushed.

Dive how you want of course but we dive more together. It helps us to not have to run around looking for each other. I know that can be hard if the other diver doesn't play nice.

Thanks for moving the post to the 'pony' thread. I didn't need doubles based on my planning not to dive with a buddy. I adjusted my plan based on the search and surfaced with minimal gas after the fubar. Max depth for the dive was 135. I hit 130. The other guy hit 135 in his penetration. I wasn't planning gas for him, as I didn't plan on doing a buddy dive. See my 'against my judgement' agreal to dive with this guy. Since I was planning a NDL dive (I always do a 3-5 minute stop at 15 when diving 0 - 130), my thirds rule is 1/3 for descent and dive to turn-around, 1/3 for dive back to line and ascent, and 1/3 for contigency. I only use the rule this way for dives within NDL. On deeper dives when planning deco, I use the rule as you state. I dove a single, because my plan, including my bottom profile, allowed it. I don't dive doubles unless I go below 130 or I plan on doing a deco dive. This dive was to be neither. Just trying to clarify here that I did not consider this a technical dive, but just a recreational dive to a exterior wreck exploration. I go for a minimalist equip config that allows for safety and streamlining. This keeps my DCR very low, which I do track on every dive and graph it against my baseline SAC. I have no intentions of being a babysitter for another diver, unless I have agreed upon it and I am rigged for the contentions. I should never have accepted this buddy when I hadn't planned on having a buddy. For that, I am wrong and endangered myself. I don't blame him entirely, for he was obviously narced and acted out of complacency. He seemed to know the dangers before he got in, and forgot about them once he was euphoric. I hope this answers some or all of your questions.

PS. I had a steel 100 with H-valve and an inflator second (three regs). I was diving dry and had a reel and lift bag.