Pony Bottles on NJ Charters?

[wrybosome]

From what I've seen on the boat I've used (not Gypsyblood) most divers are diving solo.

Sorry if someone already mentioned this, I haven't time to read all 50 posts.

 

[Rainer]

Definitely (solo) seems to be a NJ thing. I guess if you're unwilling to commit to actual team diving, then moderately challenging recreational dives do warrant gear solutions. I just don't buy the first premise...

 

[Rescue Diver68]

Right again, we Jersey divers are non-commital and non-skilled.

 

[Rainer]

Seriously, do you have a reading impairment?

Right again, we Jersey divers are non-commital and non-skilled.

 

[Rescue Diver68]

Seriously, do you have a reading impairment?

Nope, I am quite literate and I also have very well tuned BS Detector.

 

[idocsteve]

Definitely (solo) seems to be a NJ thing. I guess if you're unwilling to commit to actual team diving, then moderately challenging recreational dives do warrant gear solutions. I just don't buy the first premise...

You make the assumption that those who dive solo do so because they are unskilled.

Your assumption is wrong.

The waters off of NY and NJ tend to have limited visibility and while it's possible for a skilled buddy team to stay together in poor visibility, it can "detract" from the diving experience when you've got to watch out for your buddy every 30 seconds or so because it's easy to lose sight of him or her, and that means you arent spending your time enjoying the wreck.

Skilled solo divers with redundant gear are at least as safe as a skilled buddy team, probably moreso.

Rainer you fall into the trap of narrow minded thinking which goes something like this:

"If they aren't doing it my way, they're doing it wrong".

It's something you might want to work on.

 

[RJP]

Buddy separation there wasn't an issue (at least for those I dived with), but then again, it seems quite clear we both have a very different sense of what it means to be a buddy.

You're arguing a point I'm not making. I have a very clear, very rigorous idea about what it means to be a buddy. (Feel free to search the term "buddy" and my username here on SB.)

I'm not saying that buddy separation is a rampant issue here in NJ. I'm saying that it remains a very real possibility here in NJ - and yes, more so than many other places. To suggest that buddy seperation is not a possibility "at least not for those you dive with" sounds like much more bravado and arrogance than any NJ diver could muster on even their best day.

But ultimately, neither of us is right or wrong. Everyone needs to dive in a way that allows them to comfortably maximize safety and fun. We strive to operate our boat in a way that does that for each individual diver, and for all the passengers and crew collectively. Part of how we do that is by having a few policies in place that are considered by nearly everyone who dives here to be reasonable for the environment, conditions, and dives that are typically conducted. If you want to come dive with us - or most any of the charter boats in NJ - we hope you'll understand that those policies help ensure your safety and that of those around you. If you don't believe these policies are reasonable or are otherwise in such vehement disagreement with the fact that we have them in place... then diving with a dive charter in NJ probably isn't for you.

Again - this post represents my own views and opinions, and I'm not speaking/posting as a representative of any boat.

 

[Rainer]

You make the assumption that those who dive solo do so because they are unskilled.

Your assumption is wrong.

No, I make the very reasonable assumption that those that only dive solo are not skilled at team diving. That hardly seems controversial. I'm sure they're fine divers. Just not good team divers. Team diving takes commitment and skill, just as anything in diving does. If you only solo, then of course redundancy is critical.

Not once have I said one way is better than another. The only ones making that argument are the NJ boat operators that don't feel team diving is adequate to recreational dives in the North Atlantic. Having done hundreds of such dives, I feel I have a fair perspective on what they take to execute safely.

 

[idocsteve]

No, I make the very reasonable assumption that those that only dive solo are not skilled at team diving.

You now make the assumption that those who only dive solo are not skilled at team diving.

1- Please point to where you said anything remotely along the lines of 'Those that only dive solo are not skilled at team diving" prior to the post that I just quoted.

I don't see that anywhere and if it doesn't exist, you are now doing the age old technique of "backpeddling", which is another way of saying you know you have no clue what you're saying so you're making stuff up as you go along.

2- Even if you should happen to find some sort of quote along the lines of "those who only dive solo are not skilled at team diving" all that means is that you aren't back peddling, you're just wrong.

A diver might very well have dived as a buddy team for years and decided to dive solo recently, which means his buddy skills are fine, if not a bit "rusty" if it's been a while.

So you're either backpeddling and wrong or just wrong

Which is it?

 

[Rainer]

Bad edit and that post disappeared...

I'm not saying that buddy separation is a rampant issue here in NJ. I'm saying that it remains a very real possibility here in NJ - and yes, more so than many other places. To suggest that buddy seperation is not a possibility "at least not for those you dive with" sounds like much more bravado and arrogance than any NJ diver could muster on even their best day.

Obviously it's a possibility, but certainly one that can be drastically mitigated. Bright (21W+) lights, reels (and knowing how to run them), touch contact when necessary, etc all make separation extremely unlikely. I assume I have about as many dives in the North Atlantic as you. I never lost a teammate, which doesn't speak to it being possible, just it's unlikeliness. How many times did you lose a buddy you were trying to stick with? I'm sure not many. Now what's the chance of *simultaneously* running OOG (which probably hasn't happened to either of us either)? Incredibly remote. I'd put blowing my main cylinder and pony simultaneous as being more likely.

But ultimately, neither of us is right or wrong. Everyone needs to dive in a way that allows them to comfortably maximize safety and fun. We strive to operate our boat in a way that does that for each individual diver, and for all the passengers and crew collectively. Part of how we do that is by having a few policies in place that are considered by nearly everyone who dives here to be reasonable for the environment, conditions, and dives that are typically conducted. If you want to come dive with us - or most any of the charter boats in NJ - we hope you'll understand that those policies help ensure your safety and that of those around you. If you don't believe these policies are reasonable or are otherwise in such vehement disagreement with the fact that we have them in place... then diving with a dive charter in NJ probably isn't for you.

But clearly not everyone thinks those policies are reasonable, right? I assure you, most boats in the rest of the NE (at least New England where I dived for several years) don't have the same policies. Not even all NJ boats appear to have such a policy (according to previous posts here). Is this perhaps a policy for the cattle boats (16 and more passengers)? Admittedly, no such boats exist in MA. I think as you dive in more locations in the NE, you'll find most boat operators are happy to let you plan and execute your dives as you see fit. Just not a fan of the Big Brother approach...