Pony Bottle: Valve On or Off while diving

[NW Dive Dawg]

Why would someone feel that they need to make an announcement in a discussion thread that they’ve decided to no longer participate in that discussion thread? Who knows…?

To get back to the original question........my Pony valve is ALWAYS FULLY ON while diving... My Pony is not at all a part of my dive plan or my gas management plan for ANY dive….EVER! It is strictly intended to be there and available to ME in case of an emergency that involves ME and ME only. Beyond recreational and professional SCUBA diving, I am also a past military and recreational skydiver. I consider my Pony system as I would my spare chute. It is there ONLY for redundancy and emergency use in case of a catastrophic failure of my primary system. That’s it.

Here's my general equipment set-up and my basis for keeping my Pony system ALWAYS ON while diving which is really my business and all that matters to me...

• 90% of my dives are cold water (PNW/ BC), Drysuit and Solo and usually hunting…..sometimes shooting video.
• I typically dive 32% and use 110ft as my MOD in the salt.
• I own two 120 cf and two 102 cf Steel / DIN Valved tanks to use for my primary gas.
• I usually dive the 120’s unless headed to a location where fills are not available and planning to do more than two dives.
• My 19 cf Pony is firmly attached to the 120 with banded Pony Tamer system. Valve up.
• My primary regulator is an Apeks ATX-200 that controls my primary 2nd stage, integrated computer, drysuit inflator and BC inflator.
• My Alt air source (from my primary tank) is an Aqualung QD Airsource. (Basically an alternate 2nd stage that is integrated into my BC inflator.
• My Pony regulator is a Mares Abyss 22 – Navy. The first stage on the Abyss has a mini HP gauge to let me confirm the 19 is full and charged prior to the dive.
• When diving, the valves on both my primary 120 and my 19 are FULLY on. The ¼ turn back from all the way on is unnecessary and dangerous in my opinion.
• My primary 2nd stage goes over my right shoulder.
• My Pony 2nd stage goes under my right shoulder and is attached with a quick release to the front / right side of my BC harness
• I dive an Aqualung Black Diamond BC in cold water and a Zeagle Stiletto in warm water. Both are back inflate.
• My Pony's name is BOB. "Best Overall Buddy". Never panics, never complains, never leaves my side, always agrees with my choice of dives and I don't ever have to share my catch with him.

PS….. For all of the rabid “slingers” out there who feel that it’s their mission in life to tell others what is best for them……..I wish you all safe diving! Cheers!

 

[scubadada]

Sorry, I forgot to answer this question, sling the correct size pony for your diving and gas consumption and leave it on, there.

 

[Marie13]

I would like to know as well the reasoning for hanging diagonally

Probably used by those people who have a jacket BC and lack D rings in the proper places to sling. I see instructors with this at the local quarry.

 

[TooCold]

Reading through this thread, I see quite a lot of posts givng very reasonable and well thought out reasons for both "valve on" and "valve off". There are risks either way to balance against the benefit (gas available in time in an emergency). I dive OC, but for me, the risk at the top of my list is not having those first few breaths available fast enough (like the rationale for bailout on CCR), so my choice is to go with the valve open. Then mitigate the consequential risks (like accidental freeflow).

My thinking is heavily influenced by a near-miss I had early on, maybe my 5th dive after AOW, which comes to mind every time I'm gas planning. So, noob diver, using all rental gear except mask snorkel fins, and the gear was generally pretty "worn". But what did I know about checking out a shop before deciding to dive with them? Guided group dives of around 8, noob instabuddy.

So first dive of the day, max depth 24m. About a minute after descent my 2nd stage failed, and I got nothing but water. Lots of water. I choked, my throat spasmed and started coughing. I just barely managed to suppress the reflex to inhale after cough (try it sometime) while grabbing my octo. That was the beginning of a long session of coughing, gagging and retching, and I'm sure my SAC rate was through the roof. When I consider a pony, solo, I'm convinced I wouldn't have survived that scenario with the valve off. So for me, I think that delay can be deadly, and should be minimized.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

Reading through this thread, I see quite a lot of posts givng very reasonable and well thought out reasons for both "valve on" and "valve off". There are risks either way to balance against the benefit (gas available in time in an emergency). I dive OC, but for me, the risk at the top of my list is not having those first few breaths available fast enough (like the rationale for bailout on CCR), so my choice is to go with the valve open. Then mitigate the consequential risks (like accidental freeflow).

My thinking is heavily influenced by a near-miss I had early on, maybe my 5th dive after AOW, which comes to mind every time I'm gas planning. So, noob diver, using all rental gear except mask snorkel fins, and the gear was generally pretty "worn". But what did I know about checking out a shop before deciding to dive with them? Guided group dives of around 8, noob instabuddy.

So first dive of the day, max depth 24m. About a minute after descent my 2nd stage failed, and I got nothing but water. Lots of water. I choked, my throat spasmed and started coughing. I just barely managed to suppress the reflex to inhale after cough (try it sometime) while grabbing my octo. That was the beginning of a long session of coughing, gagging and retching, and I'm sure my SAC rate was through the roof. When I consider a pony, solo, I'm convinced I wouldn't have survived that scenario with the valve off. So for me, I think that delay can be deadly, and should be minimized.

My opinion is that in your particular scenario the Pony valve being off or on is really not a factor. Even with the Pony "available" you still should have an "alternate" air source or "octo" to access gas from your primary system. For me...and maybe it's just me.....my Pony is ON and ONLY there in case of a total failure of my entire primary system. My Pony system is 100% and completely redundant. My feeling is that the odds of both completely redundant systems failing on the same dive are astronomically low.

 

[TooCold]

My opinion is that in your particular scenario the Pony valve being off or on is really not a factor. Even with the Pony "available" you still should have an "alternate" air source or "octo" to access gas from your primary system.

What I said was:

... maybe my 5th dive after AOW ... So, noob diver, using all rental gear ... Guided group dives of around 8, noob instabuddy.

so no pony; and:

... while grabbing my octo.

It's all I had avaialable anyway. And on the topic of this thread:

my Pony is ON and ONLY there in case of a total failure of my entire primary system.

which is what I said, so we agree.

 

[Gandalf-the-Diver]

Probably used by those people who have a jacket BC and lack D rings in the proper places to sling. I see instructors with this at the local quarry.

I have a Scubapro Hydros pro back inflate bcd, D Rings in all the proper places. I sling my 30cu diagonally, primarily so there is equal weight distribution between both sides of my body; eliminating the need to counter-balance. If I ever had to hand it off to a distressed diver, my trim would not be out because of counter-balancing.

 

[tbone1004]

I have a Scubapro Hydros pro back inflate bcd, D Rings in all the proper places. I sling my 30cu diagonally, primarily so there is equal weight distribution between both sides of my body; eliminating the need to counter-balance. If I ever had to hand it off to a distressed diver, my trim would not be out because of counter-balancing.

I would strongly recommend you reconsider that plan….
Also an al40 wouldn’t cause the off balance issue than an al30 does but while cross clipping may solve the feeling of being lopsided it creates far more real issues in your equipment configuration

 

[HKGuns]

I REC dive a slung AL30 pony, gas off with the same brand regulator as my primary. (Atomic)

 

[CaptainChris]

I have mine "charged" but valve off. I use a 7L aluminium tank side mounted when i dive with a 15L single tank for 30m dives. I'm usually guiding dives this way so if a customer gets an OOA I can give them the 7L and send them up safely and do the same myself without using my Octo and having a stressed diver sucking all my air