Please read these 2 sides of the story and help me pick a better shop next time

[supergaijin]

I wonder whether the OP posted this as it struck a note with himself- meaning that the OP hasn't dived in a couple of years and wants a operator with a DM that will go beyond the normal duties of a guide.

If you've been dry for 2 years, do yourself a favour and book a pool session before you go on vacation. At the very minimum it'll give you an indication of what you remember and what you've forgotten. It is usually money well spent before going away to a foreign country to dive.

Refresher sessions can always be done in said foreign countries but IME, pools are a great intermediate step before finding yourself about to jump off a perfectly good boat in the middle of the ocean.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

I wonder whether the OP posted this as it struck a note with himself- meaning that the OP hasn't dived in a couple of years and wants a operator with a DM that will go beyond the normal duties of a guide.

If you've been dry for 2 years, do yourself a favour and book a pool session before you go on vacation. At the very minimum it'll give you an indication of what you remember and what you've forgotten. It is usually money well spent before going away to a foreign country to dive.

Refresher sessions can always be done in said foreign countries but IME, pools are a great intermediate step before finding yourself about to jump off a perfectly good boat in the middle of the ocean.

If you had read the OPs statement, they don't have their certification yet, they are going to the Caribbean to get it.

 

[lv2dive]

Background: Husband and I paid for OW course at our LDS. Things went very bad (see my post "Disappointed"). We thought we picked a good shop after talking to him on numerous occasions. We plan to re-take the class/CW here and finish our OW dives in warm, caribbean waters, possibly this fall.

I recently found this thread on another forum and wanted to get opinions from you wise SB members. The first one is from the dive customer and the response is from the shop owner. What can I learn from this story (or what can you offer) to help us pick a better shop to finish our OW certifications with? ...

<snip the stories>

To answer your specific questions as to what can you learn from the story? I would say:

• Ask specific questions about the area in general (such as on SB, which you have done)
• Talk to the dive op specifically to ensure you have an understanding of exactly what services are being provided. (several things were discussed in the post you referenced that could be used as a starting point of items to think about. Also, if you need to get to the dive shop from a hotel - are transfers included? etc.)
• In this case, OW checkout dives are on your list, so you may want to ensure you are crystal clear what that does and does not include.
• If you are successful in your checkout dives and you want to dive afterwards with this Op, what are you looking for? Do you *want* the dive op to set up your gear, or do you want to set up your own? Do you prefer the DM to be very active or (if they are required bc it's a marine park) let you do your own thing? These are the types of things to think about.

I wouldn't say you need to pick a "better" shop than the one in this review - I would say that you need to pick a shop with which you have established a crystal clear understanding of what will and will not be provided.

I remember reading your Disappointed thread back when you first wrote it and hated it for you. I know you do not want to repeat that experience. Not that you KNEW to do this (then), but being very specific (when are the class sessions, what happens if we are sick one week, will there be an opportunity to make them up? etc.) may have helped prevented that problem. There was no excuse for the shop owner's behavior as it was expressed in that thread but the more specific you can get, the more likely you will have a good outcome. So I believe the same will hold true with your next experience.

Best of luck. So glad you stuck with it - we look forward to hearing about your experiences!

 

[wedivebc]

I can't believe how often these type of threads show up around here.
IF LOSING THE DM IS CONSIDERED DANGEROUS THEN DON'T DIVE, GET TRAINING, OR TAKE UP GOLF!!!!!

 

[Colliam7]

We plan to re-take the class/CW here and finish our OW dives in warm, caribbean waters, possibly this fall.

Good to hear that you are still going to pursue certification. I also remember your original post, and believed (and posted as such) that you unfortunately linked up with a poor operation for your initial OW class; no good way for you to know that in advance, it just turned out that way.

I trust that you are going to do the academics / CW with another / different shop in the Charlotte area this time, at least one that does training in an enclosed pool area. As for what you can learn from the thread you pasted into your post:

I recently found this thread on another forum and wanted to get opinions from you wise SB members. ... What can I learn from this story (or what can you offer) to help us pick a better shop to finish our OW certifications with?

As several posters have mentioned, the critical issue to is estanblish clear communication with the dive op so that they understand what you expect, and are prepared to provide the service(s) you want. I do not feel a great deal on sympathy for the poster in the thread you referenced - he had what seems to me to be an unrealistic expectation of the type of support a charter operation typically provides, and what the duties of the DM are.

In your case, you will be completing your Open Water dives with a Caribbean operation. Are you planning to pick the operation, or are you looking for advice from SB posters? There is nothing wrong with you picking the operation, just be sure to communicate clearly what you want - open water dives to complete your certification - and make sure that you know what paperwork you will need to bring (DO NOT simply reply on the shop in the states to know what the Caribbean operation may want). MOST DEFINITELY, speak with someone in authority at the Caribbean operation before you get there. A good operation will be happy to speak with you, and answer your questions. If you decide on an operation, and then have difficulty getting them on the phone, or they say, 'Just come here when you arrive, we will work out the details then', stay away from them!

Once you have picked an operation, post on SB and ask for feedback from SB members who may have used them, eiothert for OW certification dives or for charters.

Finally, going back to the experience described in the thread you put in your OP, you should plan / expect / intend to become independent divers as soon as you are certified, beginning with the first post-certification dive. Do not start out by relying on a DM to shepard you through a dive. If a diver cannot assemble their own gear by the time they complete OW certification, if a diver cannot listen to a competent dive briefing on a boat and then safely enter the water, complete a simple recreational dive within appropriate limites of depth, time and gas supply, and then exit, then there was a problem with the certification. I doubt there will be any problem for you, by the way, just making a general point. There is something to be said for diving with a local dive professional the first time you visit a new area. There are some dive operations in the Caribbean who offer DM-escorted dives as a routine. But, in those cases, the DM happens to be in the water to point out interesting sights and sites that you might otherwise miss, not to check you air, not to supervise your dive, not to assemble your gear, etc. Don't rely on a DM to 'get you through' a dive.

Also please post again after you finish the OW dives this Fall, to let us know how things went.

 

[TSandM]

I think the number one way to avoid an experience like the one you posted, is not to be "that guy". In other words, it's fairly clear that the person writing the complaint really didn't expect to have to behave like a certified diver. He didn't expect to manage his own air supply, he didn't expect to do any navigation, and he wasn't at all comfortable being in the water without a professional overseeing him every minute. You can avoid his experience by not being him . . . by developing a degree of comfort in the water and facility with diving skills so that you are able to execute a simple dive (which these clearly were) without having to have your hand held.

If you commit to dives you feel comfortable doing, and plan on using the dive guide only as one of many navigational references, and a person to point out the things of interest that you might otherwise miss, you will rarely be disappointed in the performance of a dive guide. If you expect the guide to assume your responsibilities as a diver, it's a good idea to have a frank and open conversation with the dive operator and/or guide beforehand, because not all of them are going to be prepared to offer that degree of support. It is my personal belief that, outside of instruction, it is a very bad idea to embark on a dive you could not complete yourselves, if something happened to the dive guide.

 

[FPDocMatt]

I If you expect the guide to assume your responsibilities as a diver, it's a good idea to have a frank and open conversation with the dive operator and/or guide beforehand, because not all of them are going to be prepared to offer that degree of support. It is my personal belief that, outside of instruction, it is a very bad idea to embark on a dive you could not complete yourselves, if something happened to the dive guide.

While I agree withh the strategy you recommend, I do not agree with the characterization of a more comprehensive guide service as "assuming your responsibilities as a diver". As a beginning diver with only 22 dives at the beginning of the Cozumel Invasion, I really needed a DM to do more than tell me where the fish were. But I wouldn't characterize his services as "assuming my responsibilities as a diver". I would not characterize posters who are only trying to do their best to be good scuba divers in such a manner.

 

[TSandM]

Matt, what did you need a guide to do? If you needed a guide to make sure you didn't exceed your planned depth, or to make sure you checked your gauges and turned around when you had agreed to do so, you WERE expecting the guide to assume some of your responsibilities of the dive. If you expected the guide to do all the navigation, and you would have been unable to get back to the boat or shore without him, you WERE ceding responsibility to the guide. If you expected the guide to help you with your buoyancy, or carry extra weights for you if you got light at the end of the dive, you WERE expecting him to do what a certified diver should do for himself.

We go around about this all the time here. There are a lot of divers who think the role of a dive guide should be to keep them safe. I think it's your own responsibility to keep you safe. The dive guide may be insurance, but just as you wouldn't drive with bad brakes just because you have car insurance, you shouldn't dive when you can't do things for yourself, just because you have a guide.

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

While I agree withh the strategy you recommend, I do not agree with the characterization of a more comprehensive guide service as "assuming your responsibilities as a diver". As a beginning diver with only 22 dives at the beginning of the Cozumel Invasion, I really needed a DM to do more than tell me where the fish were. But I wouldn't characterize his services as "assuming my responsibilities as a diver". I would not characterize posters who are only trying to do their best to be good scuba divers in such a manner.

Matt you may find a few that will agree with you, but most will not, while I think if you didn't do your OW in the ocean having a guide isn't a bad idea, but you you should never depend on the guide to take care of you, if you get separated, you should be know what to do, you should put your own gear together, watch your own air, change your own tanks. That's what being a certified diver means. If you would like that special attention let the dive op know that you want the resort or discover scuba treatment so they can charge accordingly. I like boats with guides in the water not for the security, but because most of the time I'm traveling alone so I don't want pay extra if there isn't a buddy to go with me. I have had times where the guide did help me, and I was thankful for that, but I wasn't looking for that.

 

[RonFrank]

I was suppose to have guides for my dives? Boy I screwed that up.

I would question why this newbie diver needs opinions on not only her bad experiences, but someone else poor experiences? Someone who is not identified and can not be questioned? What is the point? It could be fantasy/fiction for all we know.

Getting objective opinions from others based on YOUR Experience is one thing, but this is crossing a line. There are no guarantees. The good news is that most dive Ops are working hard to ensure students have a good experience. There are a finite set of DiveOps in the Bahamas. Get opinions, do research, pick one and let everyone know how it goes.

You have been working on getting certified since 9/2011. You chose a Groupon dive agency which was a mistake. So why are you not certified yet? It has been close to a year?

Diving is not for everyone.