Heatheroe
Contributor
Background: Husband and I paid for OW course at our LDS. Things went very bad (see my post "Disappointed"). We thought we picked a good shop after talking to him on numerous occasions. We plan to re-take the class/CW here and finish our OW dives in warm, caribbean waters, possibly this fall.
I recently found this thread on another forum and wanted to get opinions from you wise SB members. The first one is from the dive customer and the response is from the shop owner. What can I learn from this story (or what can you offer) to help us pick a better shop to finish our OW certifications with? We will be going to the same country where the incident outlined below occurred. I have removed any references to people, places and shops. *Sorry it's so long!!
Stay Away from **!!!! Unprofessional and UNSAFE
We had the absolute WORST diving experience with this "company". It could not have been any worse!
It is pretty clear that the reason the prices are so high ($165 per person for two tank dive with rental gear!) and the product is so bad is that there is no competition for this outfit.
Here's a quick run down of what happened:
It was just myself, my wife, and my father on the dive. My wife and I hadn't gone diving in 2 years and it had been 35 years for my dad. Obviously we were all rusty and all pretty much beginners.
We spend 15 minutes loading up and are directed to put all our gear together. If I'm paying 165 pp, I expect my gear to be put together for me - especially since we're so rusty and I want it to be put together SAFELY. But this isn't that big of a deal.
During the load up time and the 20 minute boat ride to the reef, the dive master never once says a word to us. No smiles, no introductions, no small talk - literally doesn't acknowledge we are even on the boat. When we get there, she just starts talking and giving directions. Never once learns any of the 3 of our names during the entire trip.
The first dive goes ok until the end. She directs us to all come up suddenly. We all had over 1000 psi still in our tanks (I had 1400psi). I ask her why we came up early and not dive until about 500 psi (we were only in 30 ft of water anyway right by the boat) and she said "oh, you could have stayed down until 500". Gee thanks for letting me know AFTER you cut our first dive short.
On to the second dive, my father didn't have enough weight in the first dive and couldn't ever really get deep so the dive master put some more weight in his vest for the second dive. Well it turns out that it still wasn't enough and he was never able to get deeper than about 10 feet. At no point did she try to help get him down, take him to the surface to talk to him about it, or add any more weight (all dive masters should carry extra weight that they can slip into somebody's vest at any point in the dive!).
************This is where it gets REALLY BAD AND REALLY DANGEROUS**************** On the second dive, my wife sat out so it was just me, my father, and the divemaster. Well we get halfway through and she rings her bell to get our attention underwater. We look about 30 -40 yards behind us and she is signaling to turn around. We do so immediately but to our surprise so does she without waiting on us. We are swimming as fast as we can to catch up but we just watch her fins disappear in the distance. SHE LEFT US. We continue to swim but never see her. She never lets us catch up, never turns around to check on us, JUST ABANDONS US. We are literally left by ourselves on this reef. So we slow down and just start really "diving" assuming she'll come back to get us. 15 MINUTES pass with no divemaster. My father and I decide to surface to see where we are and make sure the boat was still in sight. We see the boat and go back down and start heading back to the boat. Still no divemaster. She finally catches up to us (a total of 20 minutes diving completely by ourselves). At that point, she did not even check to see if we were ok or check our air to see how much we had left! We just kept heading to the boat.
Once we get there, we still had about 1000psi and she motioned that she was cold and was heading to the boat. She had warned us before this dive that she might "Get cold and head in early but that we could just continue to dive". When she headed back, again she did not bother checking our air!!!!!! Plus, what sort of operation lets divers dive by themselves with no divemaster?!?!? If we wanted to do that, we wouldn't have paid $165!!!! So dangerous and they should lose their license!!!
I liken this to going on a jungle tour in Costa Rica that your guide loses you on and after finding you again, cuts your tour short because she is hot and just leaves you in the jungle to fend for yourself while telling you to just find your way back and meet her at the hotel. Dangerous, crazy, unprofessional, and shocking!
My wife, who was on the boat during this second dive, said the divemaster surfaced and had to coordinate with the boat captain to find us. He pointed out our bubbles and she came back down to find us....
When we got back to the boat, I asked "What the heck was that?!?!" to the divemaster and she sharply replied that WE had left her! I said we were simply swimming fast as we could to catch up with her and that she didn't wait or even look back to see if we were there! Plus - how do you lose two (2?!?!) people!? It's HER Job to keep up with us - not the other way around!
The worst part is that we complained directly to the owner when we got back. We told him the whole situation and never ONCE did he apologize or even seem concerned. He even gave us a sense of apathy. He defended the divemaster saying she had been with him a long time. He also replied with a snappy "Well what was your bottom time?" as if we were complaining more about the diving times than the absolute disregard for safety and human life. Again, never apologized once and said "he'll look into it".
So I would highly suggest that people don't dive AT ALL there as opposed to diving with this monopolistic dive company. It's clear that zero competition has created a culture of unprofessionalism, danger, apathy, and high prices with this outfit. Avoid them at all costs! There is an outfit in nearby ** that is supposed to be good - it's just not on **. Not sure the name but the diving wasn't that great anyway. Beautiful reefs but not much wildlife and trash abounded on the ocean floor. Nothing like Mexico or Belize!!!
REPLY:
Hello, I am **, the owner of ** for 11 years now. I have built this dive operation on my reputation of being a safe a reliable dive operator. We have many repeat customers who love to dive with us.
We dive with the grand parents, parents, and have taught all their children to dive within ** Second homeowners.
Of the 7 dive shops here in **, we are one of the safest dive operations in **, having no accident reports and never having sunk their dive boat like other dive operations in **.
Please understand that there are always two side to every story. I am not saying the customer is wrong, but both parties need to take responsibility for their actions.
When a customer comes in to the dive shop after a dive and complains, I always listen to what the customer has to say, and believe in what they say. I request then to speak to my dive master and boat captain and find out more information before I can make a judgement as to what really happened. We have had three problems over 11 years, and some people you can never make happy!
First off, as a Certified Scuba Diver, you are always responsible for your own actions, and must take on this responsibility. This is taught in the course, to look after your gear, your air, yourself, and also you dive buddy's. Never dive alone!
When you came into the dive shop to make the booking, you informed me that you had not dove in several years, I then, as always, offered you a refresher dive in the pool to get aquatinted with scuba diving and practice some skills. You REFUSED, saying that all was good, we are good divers, and needed no help, but were a little rusty! Yes, rusty from not diving for several years. Well, big surprise to us, when you remember nothing and lie to us. We always have all of our certified divers/customers set up their own scuba gear on our boat. This shows us if you know what you are doing, are really certified, and if it has been a while since your last dive, lets you get reacquainted with your scuba gear, and reminds you where everything is and if everything is still working, (Just like a Sky Diver who takes responsible for his own gear, a jumper always packs his own shoot, knows all about it and how it work on every jump). We then look after the equipment for you from then on, including changing the tanks and rinsing the gear after the dive. We always look after all resort scuba divers, beginner divers, and student divers, but certified scuba divers, saying they know it all, but are a little rusty, need to take responsibility of their own actions. I see that you have never dove in FL, where you carry your own tanks, set it up, change over tanks, do it all, and have a dive master not in the water, but only on the dive boat. We have two boat captains on the boat at all times, and one is a dive master to lead the dive and help the divers who ask for help. The boat captain looks after the boat, and follow the bubbles. NOT all dive shop in ** have two boat captains on their boat! Some leave their boat unattended and have no one on the surface if a problem occurs.
A dive master is a guide to guide you around the reef. If you cannot follow a dive master nor if you cannot follow simple instructions, especially when you are only two divers to follow one dive master, then you should not be scuba diving as a certified diver. You were in water at a depth of 45 feet, in 35 feet of visibility and lost a dive master? Sorry, but my dive master does not have eyes behind her head. When we have certified divers, most certified divers wish to look around, sometime stop to take pictures, and then swim behind the dive master. The dive master looks back every 4 to 5 minutes to see if you are still following. Sometime certified divers do get separated, and as a certified diver, you should know what action to take. Search for one minute then surface. This is what my dive master did when she could no longer see you. My Boat Captain, also saw the dive from the boat, saw your bubbles reverse direction and swim away from the direction of the dive master. He even mentioned this to your wife on the boat. That you were "separated" from the dive master. Our dive master lost you, searched for a minute, then surfaced. Upon surfacing asked the boat captain where your bubble were, and then swam to you.
As for the dive experience the divers had, all of our dive tours are timed at 40 to 45 minutes. Some divers use less air than others, and normally divers return to the boat with between 500 and 800 PSI of air left in their tank.
We do have good divers who may return with up to 1500 PSI, but as we have a dive master in the water, and the divers are require to follow the dive master, we dive by time. This keep us to our work/boat schedule. Dive operator understand this!
If a customer/diver wants us to hold their hand and do everything for them, we do offer a resort scuba diver course, and are more than happy to do this for the divers who ask for help.
And yes, we charge more for this service, up to $200 for a two tank dive. Our normal price for a two tank dive is $135, and includes tanks and weights. Equipment is extra. We are the same price as some of the other dive operations in **. We are as expensive as the Dive operations in Hawaii and the Florida Keys. We are not cheaper than Mexico, Dominica Republic and Costa Rica, nor is our beer at $48 a case! ** is a lot more expensive, food, electricity, fuel, & manpower.
I am very sorry for your bad experience and wish I could do something about it, but I know there is nothing to change your mind!
I recently found this thread on another forum and wanted to get opinions from you wise SB members. The first one is from the dive customer and the response is from the shop owner. What can I learn from this story (or what can you offer) to help us pick a better shop to finish our OW certifications with? We will be going to the same country where the incident outlined below occurred. I have removed any references to people, places and shops. *Sorry it's so long!!
Stay Away from **!!!! Unprofessional and UNSAFE
We had the absolute WORST diving experience with this "company". It could not have been any worse!
It is pretty clear that the reason the prices are so high ($165 per person for two tank dive with rental gear!) and the product is so bad is that there is no competition for this outfit.
Here's a quick run down of what happened:
It was just myself, my wife, and my father on the dive. My wife and I hadn't gone diving in 2 years and it had been 35 years for my dad. Obviously we were all rusty and all pretty much beginners.
We spend 15 minutes loading up and are directed to put all our gear together. If I'm paying 165 pp, I expect my gear to be put together for me - especially since we're so rusty and I want it to be put together SAFELY. But this isn't that big of a deal.
During the load up time and the 20 minute boat ride to the reef, the dive master never once says a word to us. No smiles, no introductions, no small talk - literally doesn't acknowledge we are even on the boat. When we get there, she just starts talking and giving directions. Never once learns any of the 3 of our names during the entire trip.
The first dive goes ok until the end. She directs us to all come up suddenly. We all had over 1000 psi still in our tanks (I had 1400psi). I ask her why we came up early and not dive until about 500 psi (we were only in 30 ft of water anyway right by the boat) and she said "oh, you could have stayed down until 500". Gee thanks for letting me know AFTER you cut our first dive short.
On to the second dive, my father didn't have enough weight in the first dive and couldn't ever really get deep so the dive master put some more weight in his vest for the second dive. Well it turns out that it still wasn't enough and he was never able to get deeper than about 10 feet. At no point did she try to help get him down, take him to the surface to talk to him about it, or add any more weight (all dive masters should carry extra weight that they can slip into somebody's vest at any point in the dive!).
************This is where it gets REALLY BAD AND REALLY DANGEROUS**************** On the second dive, my wife sat out so it was just me, my father, and the divemaster. Well we get halfway through and she rings her bell to get our attention underwater. We look about 30 -40 yards behind us and she is signaling to turn around. We do so immediately but to our surprise so does she without waiting on us. We are swimming as fast as we can to catch up but we just watch her fins disappear in the distance. SHE LEFT US. We continue to swim but never see her. She never lets us catch up, never turns around to check on us, JUST ABANDONS US. We are literally left by ourselves on this reef. So we slow down and just start really "diving" assuming she'll come back to get us. 15 MINUTES pass with no divemaster. My father and I decide to surface to see where we are and make sure the boat was still in sight. We see the boat and go back down and start heading back to the boat. Still no divemaster. She finally catches up to us (a total of 20 minutes diving completely by ourselves). At that point, she did not even check to see if we were ok or check our air to see how much we had left! We just kept heading to the boat.
Once we get there, we still had about 1000psi and she motioned that she was cold and was heading to the boat. She had warned us before this dive that she might "Get cold and head in early but that we could just continue to dive". When she headed back, again she did not bother checking our air!!!!!! Plus, what sort of operation lets divers dive by themselves with no divemaster?!?!? If we wanted to do that, we wouldn't have paid $165!!!! So dangerous and they should lose their license!!!
I liken this to going on a jungle tour in Costa Rica that your guide loses you on and after finding you again, cuts your tour short because she is hot and just leaves you in the jungle to fend for yourself while telling you to just find your way back and meet her at the hotel. Dangerous, crazy, unprofessional, and shocking!
My wife, who was on the boat during this second dive, said the divemaster surfaced and had to coordinate with the boat captain to find us. He pointed out our bubbles and she came back down to find us....
When we got back to the boat, I asked "What the heck was that?!?!" to the divemaster and she sharply replied that WE had left her! I said we were simply swimming fast as we could to catch up with her and that she didn't wait or even look back to see if we were there! Plus - how do you lose two (2?!?!) people!? It's HER Job to keep up with us - not the other way around!
The worst part is that we complained directly to the owner when we got back. We told him the whole situation and never ONCE did he apologize or even seem concerned. He even gave us a sense of apathy. He defended the divemaster saying she had been with him a long time. He also replied with a snappy "Well what was your bottom time?" as if we were complaining more about the diving times than the absolute disregard for safety and human life. Again, never apologized once and said "he'll look into it".
So I would highly suggest that people don't dive AT ALL there as opposed to diving with this monopolistic dive company. It's clear that zero competition has created a culture of unprofessionalism, danger, apathy, and high prices with this outfit. Avoid them at all costs! There is an outfit in nearby ** that is supposed to be good - it's just not on **. Not sure the name but the diving wasn't that great anyway. Beautiful reefs but not much wildlife and trash abounded on the ocean floor. Nothing like Mexico or Belize!!!
REPLY:
Hello, I am **, the owner of ** for 11 years now. I have built this dive operation on my reputation of being a safe a reliable dive operator. We have many repeat customers who love to dive with us.
We dive with the grand parents, parents, and have taught all their children to dive within ** Second homeowners.
Of the 7 dive shops here in **, we are one of the safest dive operations in **, having no accident reports and never having sunk their dive boat like other dive operations in **.
Please understand that there are always two side to every story. I am not saying the customer is wrong, but both parties need to take responsibility for their actions.
When a customer comes in to the dive shop after a dive and complains, I always listen to what the customer has to say, and believe in what they say. I request then to speak to my dive master and boat captain and find out more information before I can make a judgement as to what really happened. We have had three problems over 11 years, and some people you can never make happy!
First off, as a Certified Scuba Diver, you are always responsible for your own actions, and must take on this responsibility. This is taught in the course, to look after your gear, your air, yourself, and also you dive buddy's. Never dive alone!
When you came into the dive shop to make the booking, you informed me that you had not dove in several years, I then, as always, offered you a refresher dive in the pool to get aquatinted with scuba diving and practice some skills. You REFUSED, saying that all was good, we are good divers, and needed no help, but were a little rusty! Yes, rusty from not diving for several years. Well, big surprise to us, when you remember nothing and lie to us. We always have all of our certified divers/customers set up their own scuba gear on our boat. This shows us if you know what you are doing, are really certified, and if it has been a while since your last dive, lets you get reacquainted with your scuba gear, and reminds you where everything is and if everything is still working, (Just like a Sky Diver who takes responsible for his own gear, a jumper always packs his own shoot, knows all about it and how it work on every jump). We then look after the equipment for you from then on, including changing the tanks and rinsing the gear after the dive. We always look after all resort scuba divers, beginner divers, and student divers, but certified scuba divers, saying they know it all, but are a little rusty, need to take responsibility of their own actions. I see that you have never dove in FL, where you carry your own tanks, set it up, change over tanks, do it all, and have a dive master not in the water, but only on the dive boat. We have two boat captains on the boat at all times, and one is a dive master to lead the dive and help the divers who ask for help. The boat captain looks after the boat, and follow the bubbles. NOT all dive shop in ** have two boat captains on their boat! Some leave their boat unattended and have no one on the surface if a problem occurs.
A dive master is a guide to guide you around the reef. If you cannot follow a dive master nor if you cannot follow simple instructions, especially when you are only two divers to follow one dive master, then you should not be scuba diving as a certified diver. You were in water at a depth of 45 feet, in 35 feet of visibility and lost a dive master? Sorry, but my dive master does not have eyes behind her head. When we have certified divers, most certified divers wish to look around, sometime stop to take pictures, and then swim behind the dive master. The dive master looks back every 4 to 5 minutes to see if you are still following. Sometime certified divers do get separated, and as a certified diver, you should know what action to take. Search for one minute then surface. This is what my dive master did when she could no longer see you. My Boat Captain, also saw the dive from the boat, saw your bubbles reverse direction and swim away from the direction of the dive master. He even mentioned this to your wife on the boat. That you were "separated" from the dive master. Our dive master lost you, searched for a minute, then surfaced. Upon surfacing asked the boat captain where your bubble were, and then swam to you.
As for the dive experience the divers had, all of our dive tours are timed at 40 to 45 minutes. Some divers use less air than others, and normally divers return to the boat with between 500 and 800 PSI of air left in their tank.
We do have good divers who may return with up to 1500 PSI, but as we have a dive master in the water, and the divers are require to follow the dive master, we dive by time. This keep us to our work/boat schedule. Dive operator understand this!
If a customer/diver wants us to hold their hand and do everything for them, we do offer a resort scuba diver course, and are more than happy to do this for the divers who ask for help.
And yes, we charge more for this service, up to $200 for a two tank dive. Our normal price for a two tank dive is $135, and includes tanks and weights. Equipment is extra. We are the same price as some of the other dive operations in **. We are as expensive as the Dive operations in Hawaii and the Florida Keys. We are not cheaper than Mexico, Dominica Republic and Costa Rica, nor is our beer at $48 a case! ** is a lot more expensive, food, electricity, fuel, & manpower.
I am very sorry for your bad experience and wish I could do something about it, but I know there is nothing to change your mind!
