Please help me stop!

[boulderjohn]

You could then increase conservatism through gradient factors. And furthermore, take bubble mechanics into account to make even more conservative. Isn't that what RGBM tries to do? And it just so happens that is what Suunto uses.

A teacher of mine told me that you'll go to University and when you think you know everything they'll give you a Bachelors Degree. Then you keep on the studies and find out there's a lot that you really don't know. At that point, they give you a Masters. You keep on studying and realize you know nothing. And then finally when you come to that realization, they'll give you your PhD.

Conservatism is your friend. Diving only within the computer's NDL is not necessarily being more conservative than doing well structured deco dives. You can do very conservative deco dives for the sake of extending times underwater within recreational depths and recreational overall run times.

I am not sure what you are saying here, but I don't think this is the place to get into complications of deco theory. I will therefore not give a real substantial reply. I suggest playing around in the Ask Dr. Decompression forum.

I am not sure what most Suuntos actually do. They have said they use "Suunto RGBM," whatever that is. (The term RGBM was introduced by Bruce Weinke, but his name was not real prominent in the descriptions you got with the computers.) A lot of people think the traditional "Suunto RGBM" algorithm does not seem to follow Weinke all tahat much. Recently, a couple of us saw the description of a new computer Suunto released last year, and the wording appeared to be different. For one, Weinke's name was all over the place, which indicates that he might have more ownership in this model than the last one. I don't know.

When you start using decompression software designed by Weinke (GAP), it is not the same thing.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I am not sure what you are saying here, but I don't think this is the place to get into complications of deco theory. I will therefore not give a real substantial reply. I suggest playing around in the Ask Dr. Decompression forum.

I am not sure what most Suuntos actually do. They have said they use "Suunto RGBM," whatever that is. (The term RGBM was introduced by Bruce Weinke, but his name was not real prominent in the descriptions you got with the computers.) A lot of people think the traditional "Suunto RGBM" algorithm does not seem to follow Weinke all tahat much. Recently, a couple of us saw the description of a new computer Suunto released last year, and the wording appeared to be different. For one, Weinke's name was all over the place, which indicates that he might have more ownership in this model than the last one. I don't know.

When you start using decompression software designed by Weinke (GAP), it is not the same thing.

I think it has less to do with Weinke than Buhlmann, to tell you the truth. From what I could tell (having owned a Suunto Vytec) was that it didn't penalize you for deep stops (within limits), and penalized you heavily for reverse profiles ... both of which are "symptoms" of RGBM. But Suunto doesn't follow the "rules" associated with RGBM dive planning at all ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[scubaflier]

Wow this is Crazy! The op asked for help on his opinion of diving styles,and I guess his resentment of being told what the best way to dive is. (Plan your Dive & dive Your Plan)A long lost tool I guess. If you plan your dive you know what gear you will need to conduct that perticular dive. Not that hard to understand. If your doing a dive on the Doria you will need to do some deco. I guess If you are a super trained dive god as many on here claim to be (including the gear arrangement) then you can make that same dive with a snorkel and a 1.7 spare air for around 2.5 hrs. Fact is no instructor or agency or dive club can change the laws of nature but one thing is for sure it is halirous as hell reading about all of you who think you can HA HA HA HA:mooner:

 

[Randy43068]

Are you trying to make a point? If so, it's lost on me.

However as with any conversation, they tend meander all over the place. This thread is no exception and I find it interesting to read about many different opinions, even if they are off topic. Imagine how short and boring these SB threads would be if we strictly adhered to the original poster's topic.

Wow this is Crazy! The op asked for help on his opinion of diving styles,and I guess his resentment of being told what the best way to dive is. (Plan your Dive & dive Your Plan)A long lost tool I guess. If you plan your dive you know what gear you will need to conduct that perticular dive. Not that hard to understand. If your doing a dive on the Doria you will need to do some deco. I guess If you are a super trained dive god as many on here claim to be (including the gear arrangement) then you can make that same dive with a snorkel and a 1.7 spare air for around 2.5 hrs. Fact is no instructor or agency or dive club can change the laws of nature but one thing is for sure it is halirous as hell reading about all of you who think you can HA HA HA HA:mooner:

 

[boulderjohn]

I think it has less to do with Weinke than Buhlmann, to tell you the truth.

I agree.

 

[Slamfire]

I am not sure what you are saying here, but I don't think this is the place to get into complications of deco theory. I will therefore not give a real substantial reply. I suggest playing around in the Ask Dr. Decompression forum.

I am not sure what most Suuntos actually do. They have said they use "Suunto RGBM," whatever that is. (The term RGBM was introduced by Bruce Weinke, but his name was not real prominent in the descriptions you got with the computers.) A lot of people think the traditional "Suunto RGBM" algorithm does not seem to follow Weinke all tahat much. Recently, a couple of us saw the description of a new computer Suunto released last year, and the wording appeared to be different. For one, Weinke's name was all over the place, which indicates that he might have more ownership in this model than the last one. I don't know.

When you start using decompression software designed by Weinke (GAP), it is not the same thing.

What I said is really a moot point in the context of this conversation. I appreciate your feedback as it has brought out several things I didn't know, particularly the apparent disjunctions between B. Weinke and Suunto RGBM. I've only dove twice with a Suunto so I have no extensive personal experience with its algorithm.

I have a computer that uses Mares RGBM. Bruce's name is all over the manual. I know it takes into account bubble mechanics. I also know that it'll change to more conservative gradient factors for repetitive dives. Exact manual wording (page 13, under algorithm section): "Reduction of permissible gradient (M factors) in case of repetitive dives, deeper-than-previous dives or dives on multiple consecutive days."

You mentioned that simply saying that spending more time decompressing is not the simple answer for curing all DCS. I agree. I mentioned how I thought some algorithms increase conservatism citing tissues and bubbles, that you brought up on your comment. I thought that RGBM model was the one or close to the one Suunto (the brand under fire in the originating post) uses.

 

[boulderjohn]

I thought that RGBM model was the one or close to the one Suunto (the brand under fire in the originating post) uses.

It says it is, and I imagine it does use it to some degree. It is definitely a conservative algorithm. That has been shown by a number of comparison tests.

 

[Slamfire]

I've never disputed whether its conservative or not. I just said conservatism is your friend. It tries to keep you from getting bent. If you want more bottom time, stay down longer and take it into deco, no big deal.

 

[DaleC]

Conservatism is your friend. Diving only within the computer's NDL is not necessarily being more conservative than doing well structured deco dives. You can do very conservative deco dives for the sake of extending times underwater within recreational depths and recreational overall run times.

I think I understand your point here.

Just a while ago I postulated as to whether a diver doing a planned deco dive was safer than someone simply diving within NDL limits. My thinking was that a deco diver chose a model and calculated his off gassing according to his actual dive profile where as a NDL diver does the same deco (3 minute SS) whether they spend 1 minute at 100ft or 19 minutes.

 

[The Chairman]

Can anyone tell me how to stop pointing out that there is more than one way to dive?

No. You have a righteous response to the people who think: "If I don't dive/train/use that gear, then it's crap" mentality.

Scuba was meant to be fun. Some get their fun by meeting a certain standard. Some get their fun by looking at the pretty fishies. Some get their fun by shooting the pretty fishies. As long as you're having fun, you are a winner in the game!

Now, go have some fun!