Placement of Octo (possible Alternative?)

[dc4bs]

Originally posted by VTWarrenG
What the hell is a scumball?

You wacky rec divers...

- Warren

I'm not sure, but if I had to guess, it's one of those little rubber cuplike things that the octo mouthpiece fits into. Usualy, they have a "keychain" type ring on the back to attach it to a D-ring with.

They also can have a slight effect in preventing the octo from free flowing as they will provide a small amount of backpressure should it start to blow.

 

[RRDAVE]

well I still think that haing our 2nd as part of your BC fill hose is the best all-around way to go. cuts out one pressure hose and as long as your buddy knows to go for your primary it is OK. besides if somone is really having an out-of-air emergency panic will have probably set in and they are going for your primary anyway. RRdave

 

[VTWarrenG]

RRDAVE,

*sigh*

Inflator-integrated backup regs are a completely bad idea.

dc4bs,

Oh, those pointless little things that constantly let the backup fall out and drag across the ground... right, I've seen those on the cattle boats, too. Once I saw a diver's reg fall out of his "scumball" four times before he even got into the water. He just kept putting it back. My buddy and I thought it was funny... sphexism at its best.

- Warren

 

[RRDAVE]

vtwarren, why do you think that the intergated 2nd is a bad idea ours work great and breath efforts pretty low as well. lets face the facts we should really never put our selves or our buddys in a place that we have to use or 2nd's but it could happen! Thats the only reason we have them right? I mean when was the last time you dove and used your 2nd? RRdave

 

[jetblast00]

Originally posted by RRDAVE
vtwarren, why do you think that the intergated 2nd is a bad idea ours work great and breath efforts pretty low as well. lets face the facts we should really never put our selves or our buddys in a place that we have to use or 2nd's but it could happen! Thats the only reason we have them right? I mean when was the last time you dove and used your 2nd? RRdave

that would be when I had a 2nd stage failure on my primary last november, and I'm glad that I knew my secondary would be exactly where it should be because it was bungeed around my neck. You're right RRDAVE, you'll rarely or never need it, but when you need it, you need it, and it d*mn well better be where you put it.

 

[VTWarrenG]

RRDAVE,

I'm going to pounce on you a bit. Please understand it's not a personal attack.

vtwarren, why do you think that the intergated 2nd is a bad idea ours work great and breath efforts pretty low as well.

Integrated inflator/backup regs have the following drawbacks:

1. They're unreliable.
2. They cause difficultly in controlling buoyancy.
3. They're hard to service.
4. They don't breathe well.
5. They are not reconfigurable underwater.
6. If you have an LP hose failure, you lose both your BC inflator and your backup reg simultaneously.
7. They make it hard to move your head around.
8. The inflator should be tucked close to your body and secured to you, not left drifting away. If you keep the inflator properly secured, it'll be next to impossible to use an integrated backup reg.

... and there are more, but that's the short list.

Integrated inflator/backup regs are a completely bad idea.

lets face the facts we should really never put our selves or our buddys in a place that we have to use or 2nd's but it could happen!

Exactly -- "it could happpen, " and that's why I have a real reg as a backup. Most people seem to have this attitude that the backup is necessary because PADI told them so -- not because they actually care about using it when they need it. I don't want to have to breathe off some gimmick in the midst of an emergency -- I want to breathe off a backup reg that is identical to my primary.

I mean when was the last time you dove and used your 2nd?

The last dive I did. And the dive before it. And the dive before that one, too. I do a safety-drill involving a practice air-share, staying neutrally buoyant in the water column, at 10 feet, before every dive. I service and care for my backup reg every bit as carefully as my primary. I depend on my backup every bit as much as I depend on my primary -- the only difference is that the primary is most often the one in my mouth. Because each reg is part of my life-support system, I depend on both. I don't use some gimmick that I can't depend on, just because it's neat to eliminate a 26" LP hose.

- Warren

 

[The Chairman]

I had my second stage failure last September, and my Duo-Air did me just fine. At least I think I'm still alive...

 

[VTWarrenG]

Ok, NetDoc, I'm going to push you out of an airplane. I am going to give you the option of a parachute, or a nice bedsheet. You can take either. You might live with either. Which would you rather have?

Keep in mind that your successful use of a DuoAir is just that -- one data point. It doesn't indicate a trend, or a generality, at all. In general, despite your singular success, those gimmicks provide no benefit other than the elimination of one 26" LP hose, but come bundled with a variety of new problems.

Similarly, the bedsheet eliminates all that bulky and complicated parachute rigging mess, but, well, it's a lot more likely to fail you when you need it most.

Bombs away...

- Warren

 

[jetblast00]

Originally posted by VTWarrenG
Ok, NetDoc, I'm going to push you out of an airplane. I am going to give you the option of a parachute, or a nice bedsheet. You can take either. You might live with either. Which would you rather have?

Keep in mind that your successful use of a DuoAir is just that -- one data point. It doesn't indicate a trend, or a generality, at all. In general, despite your singular success, those gimmicks provide no benefit other than the elimination of one 26" LP hose, but come bundled with a variety of new problems.

Similarly, the bedsheet eliminates all that bulky and complicated parachute rigging mess, but, well, it's a lot more likely to fail you when you need it most.

Bombs away...

- Warren

Real men use pillow sacks!

 

[TexasMike]

When I first got my regulator seutp, I got talked into the TUSA Duo-Air. But after just 7 dives with it, I ditched it for another Apeks TX50 2nd stage for the many of the same reasons that Warren stated.

While integrated octos might work for some folk's type of diving, it doesn't suit mine.

(BTW, I still need to sell my Duo-Air. If there is enough interest, I'll toss it up on eBay.)