Pit bull coming at me, owner screaming "Vicious NO"

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catherine96821:
Look, I love dogs. I just really think you all are not clear on this Pit Bull thing.....but to each their own.

ok, let me try again...

"Pit bulls were long considered, by some, to be an ideal family pet and are recommended to this day by the American Kennel Club as an especially good dog for children."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull

read to your heart's content. but don't stop there. talk to responsible pit bull
owners, and you will realize you don't know anything about these wonderful
animals. remember how i told you in England they are called the 'nanny dog?"
i ain't kidding. serioulsy. educate yourself.
 
Wow what a thread. Ber glad it worked out. As I suspect you know people are actually more competent to defend themselves than they think against a dog. However too many just freeze and try to passivly defend. With training, you have many tools to seriously incapacitate a dog before he/she gets to you. However not many of us have the tools or the practice. A well timed kick, punch or elbow can stop a dog cold, but you need to know what you are doing and have the confidence to stand up to the animal. Most times if you do what you did, i.e stand up to the animal that is enough to stop it.

Have been around long enough to see "viscous" breeds come and go. As Andy said at one time the "bull terrier" was considered one of the best dogs for children - still are in some places. The doberman, and german shepard were breeds that "should be banned" at one time or another because they are inherently viscous.

Have had a number of dogs, all of them in the right circumstances would attack a stranger. This is common to ALL dogs - they are pack animals and are hardwired to defend themselves and the pack. If a threat is percieved they will attack - period. Your job as owner is to be the alpha dog and control "your pack" so they look to you for permission before acting.

Sombody commented re the "herding" instinct of their dog. This same dog was bred to protect the herd as well as keep it together. Not generally a threat, unless a visiting child in some way triggers the "protect my herd" instincts, then tragedy can be the result.

One of my dogs was a terrier - bred at one point to find and kill rats. Came home one day to find the remains of a rat pancaked into the lawn and the dog gleefully pounding on it trying to make it flatter. Peeled it up like a cartoon. The instinct had been triggered and the dog attacked. The dog outweighed the rat by perhaps a pound or two. The point being that as a pet dogs are wonderful, but they all have killer insticts. You can make any dog, any breed, viscous by bringing out this instinct - the larger the dog the more dangerous the result. You can make any dog a danger to others by letting it be the alpha dog of your pack. Then you are putting the attack - no attack decision in its pea brain rather than yours. IMHO both kinds of owners should be liable.

There are no viscous dogs, only viscous owners and irresponsible owners.

As a PS one of my dogs was very dangerous - to men in uniform - when we were not around - and no other person. We had to keep him on leash or locked up whenever he was left alone. Postman, policeman, fireman, courier any male in clothing that looked like a uniform of some kind that came on the property he would attack immediately, unless we were there, then he bacame very agitated but did not attack. Anyone else he was the most gentle friendly animal you could want. This was an english setter cross - known to be goofy and not too bright, but not viscous. Our theory was that he had been abused by someone before we got him - the 8 hours of surgery required to repair a shattered leg when we got him was a clue:D
 
catherine96821:
Lamont! You are so intelligent! Do you really believe what you are saying?
This thread is making me crazy. Do you understand genetics? A Chihuahua and a Pit Bull, the same genetics??
Oh my gosh....I am speechless.

Andy, I think you are playing devil's advocate too. When you people drop your five year old somewhere with Pit Bulls, give me a call.

Ah yes, the old nature vs. nurture...

I'm almost sure that you can mate a Chihuahua with a Pit Bull, and have fertile offspring--which would make them the same species. They're both dogs (Canis Familiaris, if I remember my taxonomy). While the morphology and temperament have been bred into a whole ton of 'breeds' (please don't get me started on 'breeding standards!'), they still have the same number of chromosomes, etc. And, of course, you might need, umm, artificial assistance (like domestic turkeys; they can't mate without, umm, artificial devices...)

On the other hand, if you do a DNA hybridization between, say, humans (Homo Sapiens) & chimpanzees (Pan Something-or-Other), you get something like a 98% match.

So, I'll agree that the breed commonly known as 'pit bulls' is inherently more agressive than, say, the black labrador retriever. But it's the owner, stupid. I wish owners of pit bulls who misbehaved had all their belongings sued off, and were thrown in jail to boot. (Heck, let's make that owners of poorly trained dogs, period). Not to mention owners of un-neutered dogs, etc.

B'er, I'm very glad you're all right!!

p.s. I have both dogs and children. I'm would have been happy to leave my then-toddlers with either of our dogs, except that the toddlers hated being licked...
 
hdtran:
I'm almost sure that you can mate a Chihuahua with a Pit Bull, and have fertile offspring--which would make them the same species.

ya.... actually, all dogs are a subspecies of wolf... dogs and wolves will mate
if given the opportunity

believe it or not

and all dogs can breed with one another
 
H2Andy:
ya.... actually, all dogs are a subspecies of wolf... dogs and wolves will mate
if given the opportunity

believe it or not

and all dogs can breed with one another

Andy,

I'm not certain if the offspring of a dog/wolf mating is fertile (which is one of the distinctions that you used to look for in determining species...) That's why even though horses & donkeys can have offspring, they are separate species. If, in fact, the offspring of dog/wolf hybrids can interbreed (and with either dogs or wolves), then, the Linnean taxonomists need to revise their taxonomy ;)

Yes, I think I'll accept that all dogs can interbreed with each other (although some breeds might require artificial assistance, but let's keep this topic family-friendly, shall we?) (My original assertion in response to Catherine-number-number-number-number was that I was almost sure, so I'll change to a I'm sure...)

Hy

p.s. edit added: There is some movement in the biology community; probably will occur; to revise taxonomy to be genome-based, rather than Linnean, which is morphologically-based.
 
hdtran:
I'm not certain if the offspring of a dog/wolf mating is fertile (which is one of the distinctions that you used to look for in determining species...)

yup, they are ...

happens all the time, particulalry with the northern wolf populations

The Eastern Timber Wolf is a direct ancestor to most, if not all, of the North American northern sled dog types. This interbreeding still occurs with dogs living in the Arctic region, where the attributes of the wolf that enable survival in a hostile environment are valued by humans. Additionally, unintentional crossbreeding occurs simply because dogs and wolves live in the same environment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog

in fact, it's almost impossible to separate wolves and dogs as separate
species. in reality, dogs are simply domesticated wolves selectively
bred for certain traits for the past 15,000 years.

and before that, for the past 400,000 years, wolf remains were found
with hominid remains. man and wolf (and now dog) have a long history.
 
Lots of Husky/Wolf crosses floating around up this way.
 
H2Andy:
yup, they are ...

happens all the time, particulalry with the northern wolf populations

The Eastern Timber Wolf is a direct ancestor to most, if not all, of the North American northern sled dog types. This interbreeding still occurs with dogs living in the Arctic region, where the attributes of the wolf that enable survival in a hostile environment are valued by humans. Additionally, unintentional crossbreeding occurs simply because dogs and wolves live in the same environment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog

in fact, it's almost impossible to separate wolves and dogs as separate
species. in reality, dogs are simply domesticated wolves.

yup, I had a dog that was 1/4 wolf... do the math...
 
I am sure you had a terrific encounter with a crazed dog, but can you safely and surely identify the attacker as a Pit Bull? Don't hate the breed because of one bad apple! In human terms, that would be discrimination based on generalization.

99% of people, including those idiots that passed the ban here in Ontario were misinformed and could not even recognize the dog they banned. They jumped on the band wagon, because some dogs got involved in bitings, not all were Pit Bulls. I have a Jack Russel, he's is just as nutz and can be just as protective and "vicious" when he is on the leash with other dogs and other people (on foot and on bike) as any so called "crazy Pit Bull" -- you have to remember that dogs are wild animals, no matter how much we think they have been tamed, they are still wild animals and will behave so, especially when threatened or members of the pack are threatened. My 25lb Jack will pull and jerk my 300lbs around without even flexing a muscle when he gets going. He is a super darling off the leash, but get him between me and another person and he will attack! That is their job, to protect and to serve the members of the pack. He has attacked German Sheppards 6x his size because the dog came towards me - no questions about size or breed he went for that dogs throat.

Dogs in general (let that be an over bread Poodle to a Melanesian Bear Killer) are prone to attack - I had more bites and attacks from a g/f's stupid little Chow-chow and Bichon then any other dogs, yet you don't see them banned and confined. On the other hand a friend of mine has 4 Pit bulls that are the most loving and loyal dogs you will ever see, find and get in contact with.

All I am trying to say is, let's not ban or hate a breed that 99% of people have no idea about or simple heard how dangerous they can be - they are all simply following a stupid rumor without thinking for themselves -- we should all learn to follow our own heads and not some stupid doctrine just because some said so! (we have too much of that nonsense already :D )
 
H2Andy:
how would you have handled it if the dog had come for you?

I'm glad to hear that you and your dogs are OK, Ber.

With regard to this question:

Step 1 - Move between dog and whatever/whomever I'm trying to protect.

Step 2 - Draw .40 caliber disciplinary tool (S&W 4006) whilst shouting "NO" and evaluating background.

Step 3 - If dog continues to advance and it is safe to do so, discharge enough rounds to neutralize threat.

Step 4 - Be thankful that I practice a few hours each week speed drawing on rapidly advancing targets.

Step 5 - Continue on about my business.

Step 6 - Send owners a bill for the rounds.
 

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