Pit bull coming at me, owner screaming "Vicious NO"
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aquaoren
Contributor
To all that are to lazy to read my whole post, here is a short movie about the truth concerning dog bites.
After reading through 23 pages, I thought I could jump in and offer my opinion and experience concerning Pit Bulls. I'm a little more opinionated and passionate about this matter than Kid K9 though.
First, I would like to acknowledge that many people are fearful of Pit Bulls. Fear is a basic instinct of humans that serves self preservation. Of course, having a big dog with big sharp teeth around you, could make many people uncomfortable.
Unfortunately, this fear is fueled by sensationalistic journalism, that uses this fear to sell "news" and by opportunistic politicians that jump on the bandwagon to score points toward the next election. This reporting in the media is made by the same people you would laugh when reading their reports about scuba diving. These are the same people that describe sharks as blood thirsty beasts and our tanks as oxygen tanks. These people may read a report somewhere and will consider themselves experts in the field and able to educate others, while actually having not a clue about the issue.
As Catherine said somewhere before: "I love dogs but I have just seen too many toddlers malled to death on the evening news" What the news miss to mention though, is that most of these incidents do not involve Pit Bulls but it is missed to mention because Pit Bulls make better headlines.
Of all posts, I've read in this thread, the most disturbing and dangerous of all is Reefraff's. It is very well written and appears to show that the author has a very profound knowledge of the matter at hand. Fortunately, it only expresses a personal opinion and a theory that not only is a poor one but is contrary to the stand of science now days. Unfortunately, some people fell for it and commended him for a well written post and used it as a reference to further their point of view. Again, while written excellently, it contains only shreds of truth, taken out of context. It is contrary to the opinion of all Veterinary medical associations, Kennel Clubs, Biologists as well as dog behaviourists.
True is:
So, You have the option. Be the hostage of your fears that are fueled by the media, or inform yourself about the true nature of the so called "Pit Bull problem"
A very informative site, I always recommend to interested people is GoodPooch. The quote above is taken from it as well as the movies, I'll post later. It also contains important information to parents about how behave and what to teach their children when around any dog, in order to help avoid getting bitten.
In my personal experience, most Pitt Bulls were very friendly. Actually they are much friendlier that most other breeds.
When I go into the examination room:
If I have a Pitt Bull waiting for me, I know that most likely, I will not have any problems.
If I have a Shepherd Dog (Regardless whether it is a German, Belgian, Australian or whatever), I know that most likely, I may have problems.
If I have an American Eskimo waiting, I know for sure he'll try to bite me.
I have rarely seen other breed of dogs that are so well balanced toward people and the few that were strange, had owner that would have screwed up every other dog breed as well.
To all the "gun fetishists" among you, may I remind you that more people are killed annually by guns than by dogs in the last 20 years. Talking about a twisted outlook on the "real problems". Actually, I'd hazard a guess that there are more people killed each month by gun violence in the USA than people killed by dogs in the last 20 years.
I heard today in the radio news that a 3 year old girl in the USA shot her mom in the knee (talking about sensationalistic news.) She found the hand gun under the sofa cushion. The first time it happened, the mother removed the bullets (Or so she thought) and put it back under the sofa cushion. The second time the 3 year old found it, the mother wasn't that lucky. The police removed 17 hand guns from that home according to the news.
In the situation as Ber described, chances are that you may miss the dog that was speeding toward you, hit one of the girls that was chasing the dog or another innocent bystander and possibly face charges for killing someone later.
Concerning those idiotic Dog Breed Ban Laws, that were produced by opportunistic politician, who have no knowledge of the issues at hand and contrary to the recommendations of all professionals that know it better, they will not work. The number of dog bites will not decrease and when the Pitt Bulls are gone or old news, the next hysteria about another breed will be developed, fueled by our sensationalistic media.
There is no way to differentiate a Pitt Bull, not even through DNA analysis. I've seen Boxer mixes that looked like Pitt Bulls and I've seen Pitt Bulls that looked like Hounds.
The best example is the stupid politician in New Mexico who was pushing the Dog Breed Ban in his region. He was badly bitten by his own dogs, a Boxer and 2 Bulldogs. Talking about real justice.
Ber, I'm sorry you had to experience this unpleasant and certainly somewhat scary situation but let me assure you that what you've seen is representative to only 0.01% of the Pitt Bull population. 99.9% of all Pitt Bulls belong to loving families that socialized their pets well and make for excellent companions. I know of doctors, lawyers, engineers and many other people who own one as a pet and for sure couldn't be described as the scum of the earth as many try to make you believe are the only people who would own a dog like that. Unfortunately, these 0.01% cast a bad reputation on the rest of the breed.
Warning: This movie isn't for the faint of heart and may not be suitable for small children but it describes the real "Pitt Bull Problem" exactly right on.
After reading through 23 pages, I thought I could jump in and offer my opinion and experience concerning Pit Bulls. I'm a little more opinionated and passionate about this matter than Kid K9 though.
First, I would like to acknowledge that many people are fearful of Pit Bulls. Fear is a basic instinct of humans that serves self preservation. Of course, having a big dog with big sharp teeth around you, could make many people uncomfortable.
Unfortunately, this fear is fueled by sensationalistic journalism, that uses this fear to sell "news" and by opportunistic politicians that jump on the bandwagon to score points toward the next election. This reporting in the media is made by the same people you would laugh when reading their reports about scuba diving. These are the same people that describe sharks as blood thirsty beasts and our tanks as oxygen tanks. These people may read a report somewhere and will consider themselves experts in the field and able to educate others, while actually having not a clue about the issue.
As Catherine said somewhere before: "I love dogs but I have just seen too many toddlers malled to death on the evening news" What the news miss to mention though, is that most of these incidents do not involve Pit Bulls but it is missed to mention because Pit Bulls make better headlines.
Of all posts, I've read in this thread, the most disturbing and dangerous of all is Reefraff's. It is very well written and appears to show that the author has a very profound knowledge of the matter at hand. Fortunately, it only expresses a personal opinion and a theory that not only is a poor one but is contrary to the stand of science now days. Unfortunately, some people fell for it and commended him for a well written post and used it as a reference to further their point of view. Again, while written excellently, it contains only shreds of truth, taken out of context. It is contrary to the opinion of all Veterinary medical associations, Kennel Clubs, Biologists as well as dog behaviourists.
True is:
So, You have the option. Be the hostage of your fears that are fueled by the media, or inform yourself about the true nature of the so called "Pit Bull problem"
A very informative site, I always recommend to interested people is GoodPooch. The quote above is taken from it as well as the movies, I'll post later. It also contains important information to parents about how behave and what to teach their children when around any dog, in order to help avoid getting bitten.
In my personal experience, most Pitt Bulls were very friendly. Actually they are much friendlier that most other breeds.
When I go into the examination room:
If I have a Pitt Bull waiting for me, I know that most likely, I will not have any problems.
If I have a Shepherd Dog (Regardless whether it is a German, Belgian, Australian or whatever), I know that most likely, I may have problems.
If I have an American Eskimo waiting, I know for sure he'll try to bite me.
I have rarely seen other breed of dogs that are so well balanced toward people and the few that were strange, had owner that would have screwed up every other dog breed as well.
To all the "gun fetishists" among you, may I remind you that more people are killed annually by guns than by dogs in the last 20 years. Talking about a twisted outlook on the "real problems". Actually, I'd hazard a guess that there are more people killed each month by gun violence in the USA than people killed by dogs in the last 20 years.
I heard today in the radio news that a 3 year old girl in the USA shot her mom in the knee (talking about sensationalistic news.
) She found the hand gun under the sofa cushion. The first time it happened, the mother removed the bullets (Or so she thought) and put it back under the sofa cushion. The second time the 3 year old found it, the mother wasn't that lucky. The police removed 17 hand guns from that home according to the news.In the situation as Ber described, chances are that you may miss the dog that was speeding toward you, hit one of the girls that was chasing the dog or another innocent bystander and possibly face charges for killing someone later.
Concerning those idiotic Dog Breed Ban Laws, that were produced by opportunistic politician, who have no knowledge of the issues at hand and contrary to the recommendations of all professionals that know it better, they will not work. The number of dog bites will not decrease and when the Pitt Bulls are gone or old news, the next hysteria about another breed will be developed, fueled by our sensationalistic media.
There is no way to differentiate a Pitt Bull, not even through DNA analysis. I've seen Boxer mixes that looked like Pitt Bulls and I've seen Pitt Bulls that looked like Hounds.
The best example is the stupid politician in New Mexico who was pushing the Dog Breed Ban in his region. He was badly bitten by his own dogs, a Boxer and 2 Bulldogs. Talking about real justice.
Ber, I'm sorry you had to experience this unpleasant and certainly somewhat scary situation but let me assure you that what you've seen is representative to only 0.01% of the Pitt Bull population. 99.9% of all Pitt Bulls belong to loving families that socialized their pets well and make for excellent companions. I know of doctors, lawyers, engineers and many other people who own one as a pet and for sure couldn't be described as the scum of the earth as many try to make you believe are the only people who would own a dog like that. Unfortunately, these 0.01% cast a bad reputation on the rest of the breed.
Warning: This movie isn't for the faint of heart and may not be suitable for small children but it describes the real "Pitt Bull Problem" exactly right on.
PaulChristenson
Contributor
I'll DIVE with any of them...
ThatsSomeBadHatHarry
Guest
I've been a vet tech for quite a while now, starting as an intern for future vet school. Those are the only dogs i have ever encountered that i genuinely do not trust. Pit-bulls were bred for fighting and have a tendancy to "snap". The can be the nicest dog you have ever met, but each one has a little internal trigger that sets off the madness and you really dont know what it is. Tragically i have heard horror stories of the "trigger" being an infant. Dog agressiveness in pitbulls is very common. I dont know how many of you have ever met face to face with an angry or threatened pit (except Ber Rabbit) but it petrifying to know that that dog can and will kill whatever it needs to to feel safe. Im not saying that this doesnt happen with other dogs, but it is too apparent in pits.
i'll take a lab or boxer any day.
i'll take a lab or boxer any day.
Robert Phillips
Contributor
Great post Oren.
aquaoren
Contributor
You may ask for your money back from the Vet. Tech School you visited if this is what they taught you.ThatsSomeBadHatHarry:
With all due respect, what you are saying has no scientific proof and can only be accepted as a personal opinion and internal personal fear of those dogs. I'll take the word of a professional behaviourists and biologists, who devoted her whole life and made a career in researching these same issues that says that there is no proof that any specific breed is inherently vicious over your limited experience any day.
While I accept that people have a sense of fear, please do not try to explain and support the fear with anecdotal evidence and BS like: Oh, these dogs were bred to fight, they must be dangerous. It is not true and will not become more true even if you'll repeat it a gazillion times.
I would have expected more real knowledge from someone who works in the field of Veterinary Medicine and intends to enroll in a Veterinary program in the future.
ThatsSomeBadHatHarry
Guest
ok, i'll ask for my money back from the many, many dog-aggressive pit bulls that i have met and maybe donate it to the many, many dogs that i have treated for wounds from being attacked by pit-bulls. I guess there is no supporting data for any of the pit-bull bans in any states. they must just be pulling it out of their *sses just for the hell of it. There are doctors on both sides of this argument. you may want to check out the other side before calling my knowledg BS. Im not a hostage of my fears. i AM however cautionary and wary when i see typical stances of aggression exhibited by a dog. I have been bit in the neck by a yorkshire terrier. Im not against them. I would like to see supporting evidence that denys that pit-bulls have been bred to fight in the past. Do you believe in genetics? Trace the lineage of a pitbull. try bull dogs while you are at it. you may be surprised what the beloved AKC supports. Aggression can be bred just as easily as hip dysplasia. I have seen good pit-bulls. still dont trust them. still wouldnt trust them around another dog. I watched a pit-bull tear apart a cat. I have seen another pit break a cocker spaniels jaw. My personal experiences have affected my views on the subject. we all have our biases don't we?
Can you show me where you got those pit bull statistics. the 99.9% one. I think that statistic would make the pit bull THE best dog to own over any other breed! where can i sign up?
Can you show me where you got those pit bull statistics. the 99.9% one. I think that statistic would make the pit bull THE best dog to own over any other breed! where can i sign up?
Oren,aquaoren:
I don't intend to quarrel with your analysis of the extent, real or imagined, to which any particular breed is inherently 'vicious' or not. It isn't my field of expertise. I'm all about empirical validity, and the studies you cite tend to support your argument.
But on a personal note, I'd ask you to read your quote above one more time.
I do know a bit about guns, and they do tend to fall into my field of expertise. I wouldn't necessarily "have expected more knowledge from someone who works in the field of Veterinary Medicine" regarding handguns - because they likely are not YOUR field of expertise. But I WOULD have expected better from you than the same untruths and media-tarnished misinformation that you referred to with regard to handguns.
An incompetent performance is an incompetent performance in any field of endeavor.
"Gun Control" - that is, real gun control - means being able to hit what you aim at.
If you don't know what you're doing in the field of animal husbandry or veterinary medicine I suspect you could cause grave collateral damage. If you don't know what you're doing with a handgun, the same is likely true.
But if you know what you're doing in your field I suspect you are safer and more proficient at it than the average tyro thrust suddenly and unprepared into a situation. The same goes for using handguns.
It is all well and good to debate in an abstract and theoretical manner on how various breeds ought to behave under empirically-based conditions.
It is a different thing when one is running at you snarling and intent on attack.
Whatever may be the case in an academic debate, when under attack I suggest that someone who knows what they are doing with a handgun and has one available is in a far better position to respond constructively than someone who can after the fact analyze in learned and theoretical verbiage regarding why the animal should or shouldn't have behaved as it did.
I don't immediately care whether the breed that is attacking me ought to behave that way or not, nor whether it was nature or nurture or abuse that caused it to attack me. I am more interested in not allowing it to continue attacking me.
A well-trained and adept marksman ought to be able to end the attack expeditiously.
Lets not any of us fall victim to speaking strongly about things we know little of.
Among other things it tends to breed arguments based on - let me see, how did you put it? "anecdotal evidence and BS"?
Darnold9999
Contributor
Doc
I agree and disagree here, I agree that in the hands of an expert a gun would be the perfect response and in the situation you posit I would really really wish I had one cause bare handed against such an animal, at my advanced age I wouldn't give me great odds. Unfortunately you don't need to be an expert to own or carry a gun. That is the person that I worry about, and that is the vast majority of gun owners out there (just my opinion based on anecdotal evidence). The chances that they will actually hit the dog are slim to none, and there is not a chance they will evaluate the field of fire before firing.
Which was the point of my earlier posts, IMHO unless you are trained and practice, owning a gun is a bad idea.
I agree and disagree here, I agree that in the hands of an expert a gun would be the perfect response and in the situation you posit I would really really wish I had one cause bare handed against such an animal, at my advanced age
I wouldn't give me great odds. Unfortunately you don't need to be an expert to own or carry a gun. That is the person that I worry about, and that is the vast majority of gun owners out there (just my opinion based on anecdotal evidence). The chances that they will actually hit the dog are slim to none, and there is not a chance they will evaluate the field of fire before firing. Which was the point of my earlier posts, IMHO unless you are trained and practice, owning a gun is a bad idea.
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I love the way people quote somebody with a phd like that means whatever they say is true! Gee, why don't we pay her and then we can call her an expert witness! It is really laughable. Hang on to your common sense Harry, I plan to.
I just watched a show about these dogs on National Geographic Channel and it went a long way to reconfirming my beliefs about Pit Bulls. But I think anyone who wants one shold have the right. All I want is a right to my opinion and my right to avoid them. That should not be too much of an imposition.
I just watched a show about these dogs on National Geographic Channel and it went a long way to reconfirming my beliefs about Pit Bulls. But I think anyone who wants one shold have the right. All I want is a right to my opinion and my right to avoid them. That should not be too much of an imposition.
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